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- The Big P.O.: 1912
- ... were not - see the 10th Amendment).
Architectural Jazz Gee, that building has a bit of everything in it, from the basic to the ... Posted by Dave - 05/01/2013 - 12:21pm -
![Detroit, Michigan, circa 1912. "Detroit Post Office." Behold the sooty Motor City. 8x10 inch dry plate glass negative, Detroit Publishing Company. View full size.
Stripes What sort of flag is flying above the entrance?
I want that roomwith the awning at the front on the top right.
Flag IDIt's the flag of the US Customs Service.
Flag flying over the entrance.Q: What sort of flag is flying above the entrance?
A: The flag with the vertical stripes atop the right face of the building in the image is the United States Customs Service Flag. Just a brief ferry ride from Detroit, across the Detroit River, is Windsor, Ontario.
Flag above the entranceRevenue Cutter Service Flag.
The flaglooks like the US Customs ensign.
Name that FlagThe flag belongs to the (former) United States Customs Service, which was the primary tax-collecting agency of the Federal Government before advent of the personal income tax. Items imported into the country were charged duty, hence the location of the agency in a post office.
A color illustration of the flag can be found at Wikipedia.
More Than It SeemsAlthough it was called the "Post Office Building" by a couple of generations of Detroiters, this was really the Federal Building for the Detroit area, and contained the local offices of several federal agencies and the federal courthouse. It was torn down in 1931 to make way for a new WPA-era Federal Building on the same site. That very nice art deco structure is still in use today.
I believe the flag over the entrance is that of the U.S. Customs Service. Detroit has long had a significant Customs presence, as it is the busiest port of entry from Canada.
Mystery of the Forgotten FlagThe flag on the post office is an emblem of the past and was known as the Civil Flag. The flag originated with the Sons of Liberty in the American Revolution when they turned the flag of the British East India Company sideways to show they were sovereign from the rule of England.
Oliver Wolcott was responsible for the design of the flag seen flying over the post office in the photo. It consisted of 16 stripes, one for each state of the Union as of the flags design on June 1, 1799, and the totemic emblem of the US, the eagle. It became known as the Customs Flag, and was used to distinguish the non-military operation of US Customs.
More here.
[Someone there could use a refresher on the difference between "its" and "it's." - Dave]
Re: StripesDepending on the specific year the photo was taken, it is either the ensign of the U.S. Revenue Cutter Service or the U.S. Coast Guard (the U.S. Revenue Cutter Service merged with the U.S. Lifesaving Service in 1915 to form the U.S. Coast Guard). Prior to the explosive growth of the federal government, federal agencies and offices were housed in Post Office buildings (since the Post Office was actually authorized to have a presence in states by the Constitution whereas other federal authorities were not - see the 10th Amendment).
Architectural JazzGee, that building has a bit of everything in it, from the basic to the complicated. The architect must have been wanting to make a name for himself.
Those gargoylish ardornments protruding from each corner of the tower just above the clock faces are awesome. I just hope the Motor City isn't prone to earthquakes.
(The Gallery, Detroit Photos, DPC, Streetcars)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/4a25486a.thumbnail.jpg "The Big P.O.: 1912")
- 30 Rock: 1933
- ... sitting there drinking martinis and listening to that new "jazz" music.
High Drama This marvelous building, reaching for the sky as ... Posted by Dave - 07/17/2012 - 10:22pm -
![New York. December 5, 1933. "Rockefeller Center and RCA Building from 515 Madison Avenue." Digital image recovered from released emulsion layer of the original 5x7 acetate negative. Gottscho-Schleisner photo. View full size.
City of the godsIn 1933, my father was a seven-year-old living up Lick Branch Hollow in the Ozark Mountains. He would read books by kerosene light in the evenings. His family kept butter and milk (and Uncle Linus' hooch) in the cold spring-fed creek outside their house. It's astonishing to think he could have boarded a train and eventually arrived in this city of the gods, only a thousand miles away.
Sign of the CrossThe double bar cross was the emblem used by the National Tuberculosis Association. Wonder if the lights were part of the campaign to fight TB.
Gotta love those whitewalls!On the convertible by the front door. Double O's. Looks like it's ready to go somewhere in a hurry.
Released emulsion layer?Dave, can you explain the technology of this image? How does an emulsion layer get released from a negative?
[This is a process used on deteriorating acetate transparencies and negatives when they've begun to shrink. The negative is placed in a chemical solution that separates the emulsion from the film base. The released emulsion layer (the pellicle) is then placed in another solution to "relax," or unwarp, it. It's kind of like disappearing your body so that only the skin is left. More here. - Dave]
Amazing viewThe shot is incredible! It looks almost surreal. I love it!
Awesome scan job.I only wish I could see an even higher res version. Great work bringing this one back to life.
WowI just can't believe how beautiful this shot is. Looks like the view from my New York Penthouse sitting there drinking martinis and listening to that new "jazz" music.
High DramaThis marvelous building, reaching for the sky as if erupting from the ground, combines amazing delicacy, impressive size, and a feeling it is built for the ages to admire. SO much more breathtaking than today's typical glass box, although you need a view like this to really appreciate the classical lines and artful massing. A nice complement to the gothic cathedral in the foreground - a true temple of commerce!
Churchly And Corporate SpiresThat's St. Patrick's Cathedral on the lower left, probably the only building from the 19th century left on Fifth Avenue, except for the Chancery House that's attached to it.
Both styles of architecture are very dramatic. When I was a small child, at Christmas, my family would go to the Christmas Pageant at Radio City Music Hall every year, and then attend Midnight Mass at St. Patrick's.
Ever since, I've never been able to separate religion from showbiz. Possibly because they really are the same thing.
Take a peekThis picture makes me want to get out the binoculars and look in the windows.
"Don't get much better"This image is a about as close to textbook perfect BW as you will find. It contains the complete range of grays from what looks like solid black in a few places to solid white in the highlights. The camera was level and the focus was dead on. As a photographer, I am envious.
Old shooter
Reaching New HeightsThe skyscraper is 30 Rockefeller Plaza before the RCA and current GE neon signage. Not that it wasn't famous before, but the TV show "30 Rock" has made it an even more iconic. Another claim is the gigantic Christmas tree on the Plaza, between the building and the skating rink, that when illuminated kicks off the Holiday Season in NYC.
Hugh FerrissThis is like the photographic equivalent of one of Hugh Ferriss' architectural drawings, coincidentally of roughly the same era.
MagicThe quality of this incredible photo captures the magic that New York City always longs for but seldom delivers.
King Kong might have had a chance...had he chosen 30 Rock instead.
OKLo mismo digo.
Gracias.
American Express BuildingThat hole in the ground, I believe, bacame the American Express Building. If you come out of the subway at the Rockefeller Center stop, and come up on the escalator in that building, you get an incredible view of St Pat's from below, with the spectacular statue of Atlas in the foreground as well. Very cool.
Other noteworthy background details here include the Hotel Edison, and the old NY Times Building, at Times Square, before they went and utterly ruined it in the 60's by stripping all the detail off the skeleton.
And check the skylights on the roof of what I think is the Cartier store, in the foreground!
Send this to Christopher NolanHere's the art direction for the next Batman sequel.
SpectacularWhat a wonderful, wonderful image! I love coming to Shorpy because you never know what Dave will come up with next.
Thanks so much!
The GreatestDave, this has to be one of the greatest photos you have posted. I work around the corner, and can look out my window at 30 Rock from 6th Avenue... my building wasn't built until 1973. Thank you.
Time stoppedIs it 2:25am or 5:10am?
Can you spot the clock?
What Gets MeLooking at this photo - and it looks spectacular on my new monitor - is the sky. It has a sort of foggy twilight quality that is difficult to put into words but which emphasizes the the "star" of the photo - the RCA Building - and its nearby consorts or supporting cast over the buildings in the background which seem to fad into the mist.
The building seems like the height of modernity, and one can easily imagine a couple of kids from Cleveland named Siegel and Shuster seeing this and making it a model for the cities of the doomed planet Krypton.
Very neat picture...Can you give us an idea of what it looked like before it was restored?
[There's an example here. - Dave]
StunnedWhat a totally wonderful image, Sat here slack jawed at the incredible detail and the superb composition.
I am amazedThe detail in the spires at St. Paul's Patrick's is fantastic. The amount of work that went into that building must have been enormous. I am very grateful not to have been on the crew detailed to put the crosses atop the spires!
The Future Is NowInteresting that this photograph looks into a future in which many of the same buildings are still with us. At far left midground is the tower of Raymond Hood's American Standard Building. Next to it, with the illuminated sign on top, is the New Yorker Hotel (now Sun Myung Moon's) where Nikola Tesla spent the last ten years of his life. At center is the N.Y. Times Building with its flagpole convenient for deploying the New Year's Eve ball. And last, but not least, the Paramount Building topped by a globe and illuminated clock which is about as close to the Hudsucker Building as could hope to be seen. Of these four only the appearance Times Building has changed to any extent. A wonderful slice of time.
TremendousTwo of my favorite photos on Shorpy consist of those like this one, showing the immense power of a huge city, even in the depths of the Depression, and those of small towns, especially when patriotic holidays were still celebrated.
Samuel H. GottschoI'd never heard of him, but one look at this photo and I'm instantly a fan. This image is nothing short of spectacular.
Ethereal, PowerfulThere have been many photos on this site that have impressed and pleased me, but this one is one of my favorites. Absolute magic. It's the quintessence of the power and style of 1930s design.
Time machineI admire NY photos of the 1950s. And now I see that many of the buildings in NY I admire already were erected in early 1930s! What a discovery. What a shot.
The Singularity of the MomentThis is an amazing photograph.
As one earlier contributor observed, the pure technical aspects of the black and white composition are fabulous. The spread of detailed gray shadows and whites make this photo almost magical. It has the qualities of an Ansel Adams zone photograph that makes his work so arresting.
But what really makes this photograph dramatic is what it reveals about New York City in 1933.
A vision of the future of large cities, bustling twenty four hours a day and electrified. Today visions such as these can be seen on any continent in any large city. It has become the norm. But in 1933 there were only two places in the world that looked like this: New York City and Chicago.
One can vicariously put oneself into the shoes of some kid from rural America or from Europe setting on Manhattan Island and seeing visions such as these for the first time. I can only guess it had the same effect as it had on 14th-century peasants in France, visiting Paris for the first time and entering the nave of the Notre Dame Cathedral.
Beautifully put!I'm sure Samuel Gottscho would have been very gratified to know thoughtful and eloquent people like Bob H would be appreciating his work in the 21st century.
PenthouseIs the Garden Patio still across the street from the skylights?
I am in love with this photographExquisite doesn't even begin to describe it.
In Your Mind's EyeYou can smell and feel the air and hear the traffic.
It may be calm now...I have a feeling that all hell is about to break loose -- this picture was taken the day Prohibition was repealed.
I worked hereI worked here in the 1960s for the "Tonight" show unit as as a production assistant for Dick Carson, brother of Johnny Carson. An attractive, dark-haired woman named Barbara Walters was working at the "Today" show at the same time. She is about 10 years older than I am.
I also worked with the News department for a time. I was in the elevator with David Brinkley coming back from lunch when I learned that President Kennedy had been shot. We stayed up all Friday night and most of Saturday assembling film footage for a retrospective of JFK's life. When we weren't editing, we were visiting St. Patrick's Cathedral to light candles with others in the crowd.
That's an absolutely amazing photo. I'm going to link this to other New Yorkers and broadcasters who might be interested.
Thanks for all your work.
Cordially,
Ellen Kimball
Portland, OR
http://ellenkimball.blogspot.com
30 RockIs the excavated area where the skating rink is? I've been there once and it is very magical. Right across the street from the "Today" studio.
Tipster's PhotoStunning, but in a different way than Gottscho's. It helps when the subject is beautiful.
30 Rock 09
Here's the view today made with a 4x5 view camera, farther back seen through the St. Patrick's spires and somewhat higher than the 1933 photo. Lots more buildings now. I was doing an interior architectural shoot, and went out on the terrace of a wedding-cake building on Madison Avenue. It was after midnight. Not much wind. Strangely quiet.
As an architectural photographer I have great admiration for these Gottscho pictures.
30 Rock in Living ColorThat's a lovely photo, and it's nice to see the perspective so close to that of the original.
Design Continuum of Bertram GoodhueThe proximity of St. Patrick's Cathedral to the newly constructed tower by Raymond Hood brought to mind two "bookends" to the unfulfilled career of Bertram Goodhue. During his early apprenticeship he undoubtedly worked on the St. Patrick's Cathedral, in Renwick's office, which greatly influenced his early career and success. The tower (30 Roc) represents what might have been...rather what should have been the end result of Goodhue's tragically shortened career (ending in 1924). Hood's career, which began to emerge after Goodhue's death is far better known, but is greatly in his debt. Hood's 1922 Tribune Tower clearly displays this link, as a practitioner of the neo-gothic style. Much of Hood's gothic detail is a through-back to design ideas that by 1922, Goodhue had already left behind.
Goodhue was by this time already synthesizing elements of european modernism into an new original american idiom. Goodhue's last major projects were already working out the language of the modern/deco skyscraper; (the Nebraska State capital and Los Angles Public Library the best examples.) Goodhue's unique career was the crucible where concepts of romantic imagery of the Gothic, the sublime juxtapositions of minimal ornament on architectonic massing was being forged with modern construction technology. A close study of his career and work will show that not only Hood, but other notable architects of the era built upon the rigorous and expansive explorations that Goodhue was beginning to fuse at the end of his life.
*It is also curious to me that Hugh Ferris is credited with so much of these innovative design ideas; no doubt he was a super talented delineator, his freelance services were utilized by many architects of the time including Goodhue. Some of his famous massing studies (sketches) owe much to Goodhue's late work.
Amazing Execution and RestorationI agree with "Don't get much Better" ! This is as good as it can get for B&W. The exposure is so right-on and this in 1933!! Is this a "night" shot.. there is a lot of ambient light. Simply Amazing. I want it!
Rock RinkThe not-yet-built skating rink is in front of the building. The empty space became 630 Fifth Avenue, where a statue of Atlas stands.
Vanderbilt Triple PalaceA long time since this was posted, but I am surprised no one recognized the southern half of the iconic, brownstone-clad Vanderbilt Triple Palaces in the foreground (640 Fifth Avenue), just opposite the lower edge of the excavated building site.
The northern half, with two residences, had been sold, demolished & replaced a long time ago, but the southern half stood until 1947 (Grace Wilson Vanderbilt continued entertaining in her usual style until WWII).
The entrance vestibule to the three residences featured a nine foot tall Russian malachite vase, once given by Emperor Nicholas I of Russia to Nicholas Demidoff, now on display at the Metropolitan Museum of Art a couple of dozen blocks north on Fifth.
(The Gallery, Gottscho-Schleisner, NYC)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/05853u1.thumbnail.jpg "30 Rock: 1933")
- Point and Shoot: 1925
- ... some drama in her style." I'll bet she listened to jazz and could make her own bathtub gin.
Those old rifles... Only one of ... Posted by Dave - 07/23/2012 - 6:44pm -
![Washington, D.C., circa 1925. "Girls' rifle team of Drexel Institute." National Photo Company Collection glass negative. View full size.
By 1926The administration had decided that showing the twin-bill of "Annie, Get Your Gun" and "The Story of Lizzie Borden" was not a great idea.
Ready on the Rightto wipe out the rest of the team! Looks like the fuse is VERY short!
Take cover, Men!"The Great Man Hunt" of 1925 is about to begin!
The Charlie Manson stare!Third from the left. Look out for her; she's on a mission. Not a particularly friendly looking bunch of gals. If you run into them on the street, smile, nod your head and KEEP WALKING!
Quoting Dusty Bottoms"Looks like someone's been down here with the ugly stick."
In today's PC worldYou don't often meet a woman who's shot her own wardrobe!
Firearm Safety...The second girl from the left has the bolt on her rifle closed. Not safe unless you're in a position to fire the thing.
Not Necessarily Unsafe......but not as safe as it could be. I have a bolt action rifle with very similar bolts, and if the safety lever is in the "safe" position you not only can't fire the gun but can't work the bolt either to load a round. Still, the preferred method is to have the bolt open (as most of them are) when the weapons are displayed in this manner.
One might argue that they are not all pointed in a safe direction either (which you do always, even if the bolt is open and there are no rounds in the magazine). A couple of the ladies appear to have their rifles pointed right at their heads.
She won't take "no" for an answer.Before computer dating, it was not uncommon for the less attractive ladies to go out and bag a husband. She needed to be a good shot as not to render him impotant or feable minded.
Duct Tape?My gunnery sergeant would not have been happy with the material condition of No. 3's weapon.
SlinglessInteresting, none of these rifles have slings.
OriginalThe Original Broad Street Bullies.
Bolting AwayYou noticed the bolt on her rifle? What about the bolts in her neck???
Alaska huntress?This photo can open up many snarky comments but I have to ask if any of them ended up in Alaska, maybe hunting from an aeroplane?
And then there were six....I think, like the haircut, it's a plea for help!
Homeland SecurityNow this is what we need for protection -- Attitude and Beauty!
The posseThere were soon to be no stray cats or dogs left in that neighborhood. Fewer kids, too, for that matter.
No faux furI'd venture a guess the fur is real, kinda makes me think girlfriend on the far right is the spoiled one.
Funny --There are no men in this photograph!
Types Seems to be four different rifles.
Rifle TypesOnly type I recognize is the two M1903 Springfield rifles - second and third from the left.
Man KillersThe two towards the right seem to be either Remington rolling blocks or some variant on the Sharps rifle. Including the '03 Springfields, we are talking a minimum of .30 caliber.
None of these gals seem to be toting the traditional .22 caliber rifles used in competition.
We're talking deer -- or, ulp! man-killing -- weaponry!
No Slings, but No Slouches EitherThe condition and variety of their rifles notwithstanding, it appears that the squad had a very good record. Drexel fielded noteworthy rifle teams all throught the '30's and '40's at least. I could not find this particular photo, but there were many articles, often with photos, about the girls' team at about this time. A selection follows.
Philadelphia Girls Becoming Marksmen
"The girl students of the Drexel Institute in Philadelphia have organized a rife team and, under the instruction of Lieut. J. P. Lyons, U.S.A., military instructor at the Institution, are rapidly becoming expert marksmen." Rock Valley Bee, 21 January 1921.
Good Rifle Teams at Drexel College
"Drexel Institute, of Philadelphia, had two wonderful rifle shooting teams the past indoor season - one of boys, the other of girls. So good was the girls' team that Capt. J. P. Lyons, the instructor, said: ‘I would like to match the girls against any boys' rifle team in the country.' When the instructor talks that way the girls must be counted on as real shots. They were. They didn't lose a match. Next season, it is more than likely that the girls will be eligible to try for the university team. Drexel won 16 of its 18 matches, lost 1 and tied 1 - with Yale. In five of its matches Drexel made perfect scores." Washington Post, 18 June 1922.
Fair Warning [photo caption]
"Girls' rifle team of Drexel Institute defeated a picked sharpshooter squad of Philadelphia police in a match." Hammond, Indiana, Times, 25 February 1926.
.22 x 6The rifles are all .22s, the Springfields are either M1922 or M2 .22 caliber training rifles. The single shots that one commenter thought was a rolling block are in fact Winchester .22 caliber "Winder" muskets built on the Winchester model 1885 action (the one on the far right is a "low wall" action. The fact that these are all .22s does little to take away from the level of marksmanship these women may have had and in fact all of the rifles are of extremely high quality.
They Had the Vote......so what else could they be coming for???
The Importance of ImpotenceApart from the spelling, my other quibble with Vernon's comment is that a well-aimed rifle shot is not the only thing about these women that may render a man impotent or feeble-minded.
TaggedThe girls #2 and #3 from the left each have a tag hanging from their coats - anyone know what that would be for?
Styles of the 20'sMy mother, married in 1922, hated the hair and clothes styles so much that she destroyed the one photo that was taken to commemorate the day. I can assure you she remained stylish to her dying day but not according to whatever everyone else was wearing. I regret that so many of us tend to follow the current trend instead of thinking for ourselves.
Permanent RecordHairstyles of the era really did nothing for them, did they.
M*A*S*HIs this where Klinger went through basic training?
Chicks with gunsHey, you know what they say. An armed society is a polite society. Betcha nobody whistled or cat-called at any girl around the Drexel campus.
Drexel Womens Rifle Team The Ladies ream was still going strong when I was at Drexel in the late 1950's/early 60's. The tape on the rifle in the middle is to improve the grip of the forestock, not to hold the rifle together. They were still using the M2's when I was there.
From an owner of two of these riflesFrom the left:
1 and 5. Obviously Springfields from the bolt throw (and barrel band sights), although my M22 MII does have a finger-grove stock.
2 and 3. Winchester Model 52 (early type with the folding ladder rear sight). Don't hassle me - I just took mine out of the gun safe to compare! The Springfields don't have the button clip release - it is a latch at the forward edge of the clip. Also, the chamber is WAY too short to be a .22 mod of an '06 action.
4 and 6. Both Winchester 1885 falling blocks - No. 6 a "Low Wall" Winder (all in .22 short). (Fortunately the lady's hose provide a good enough background to see the dropped rear of the action.) I have a 1885 "High Wall" in .22LR that is a musket stock, but I'd bet money this is a true Winder.
On the far right...... Bob Dylan?
Re: On the Far Right...I'm thinking Keith Richards.
Shot the coat myselfThe one on the far right must be their instructor or adviser. Not only is she a decade older than the other people in this picture, she looks mean enough to have shot and skinned the animals for her coat all by herself.
I suspect the tags on the coats might be an access pass to the shooting range (same idea as a ski lift ticket). You wouldn't want just anybody wandering into a place where there was live ammunition. You would need a way to tell at a glance, and from a distance, who belonged and who did not. They probably all have them, just those two are pinned where you can see them in the photo. The others may not have pinned theirs on yet for the day, or already taken them off for next time.
A rule of thumb. Or head.As a high school teacher in Colorado in the early 1950s, I was the faculty leader of the rifle club. A standard rule of safety was don't point your gun at your head! Drexel must have had a new team of shooters each year.
TapedActually, the tape would have been used to improve grip. Not to hold the rifle together. Note that the barrel band is intact.
Let's hear it for the girlsI'm surprised there's so much negativity about these young ladies. When I saw the one on the far right, my first thought was, "Leopard coat? There's a woman who's not afraid of putting some drama in her style." I'll bet she listened to jazz and could make her own bathtub gin.
Those old rifles...Only one of the "what rifles are they?" comments is accurate. To start with, all rifle competition has always been done using .22 caliber weapons. A very few national matches are held using higher caliber but .22 is the norm, believe me. The short stock rifles are obviously the special .22 version of the '03 Springfield, and the rolling/drop block "Martinis" are Winder muskets, based on the 1885 action. A friend of mine once owned a custom 1885 action that was chambered, believe it or not, for the old .218 Bee cartridge. The identification of the very early Winchester 52 is also interesting as the 52 is arguably defined as the best, at least American, target rifle ever made. The classic 52 story has a young guy asking an oldtimer what's so special about the 52. The old guy thinks for a few seconds then replies, "Son, there's .22s and there's 52s!"
IDing the rifles
[And speaking of sheer idiocy ... - Dave]
(The Gallery, D.C., Natl Photo, Sports)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/31951u.thumbnail.jpg "Point and Shoot: 1925")
- Palais Royal: 1920
- ... 1921) must have been a “Coming Soon.”
The King of Jazz Paul Whiteman, "The King of Jazz," led one of the country's most popular dance bands in the 1920s. He ... Posted by Dave - 07/03/2013 - 3:43am -
- City Hall: 1910
- ... was as a disc jockey on Philly's WHAT-FM. It was a 24/7 jazz station with all white DJs. Our AM (a studio window away) was all R&B ... Posted by Dave - 05/16/2023 - 3:34pm -
![Philadelphia circa 1910. "City Hall." Philadelphia's soot-stained City Hall, still the largest municipal building in the United States, was for a time the tallest building in the world, at 548 feet. Its epic scope includes the time it took to complete, with construction beginning in 1871 and dragging on well into the 20th century -- the project's main architect died in 1890; his successor's successor expired in 1910, still on the job nine years after the building had been turned over to the city. So glacial was the pace of construction, according to one history, that a major round of revisions had to be undertaken to account for "the invention of electricity and elevators." 6½x8½ inch glass negative, Detroit Publishing Co. View full size.
Soot RemovalThe soot was removed some time ago. Philadelphia is now a very clean city and soot-stained buildings are a thing of the past!
Curse of Billy Penn's hatSaid to be the reason why Philly sports teams lose, as nothing in the city was supposed to be taller than Mr. Penn's hat, and today, the City Hall is no longer the tallest structure in city. Here is an interesting close-up of the head and hat prior to being installed atop the City Hall tower.
Curse of Billy Penn's hat no more Not since the Phillies won the World Series in 2008. First world championship since the "gentleman's agreement" on building height restriction was broken by One Liberty Center.
"Brotherly love"So they say, but my first real job in this country was as a disc jockey on Philly's WHAT-FM. It was a 24/7 jazz station with all white DJs. Our AM (a studio window away) was all R&B and gospel, and the DJs were all black. The owner wanted that racial split strictly observed. She had two dogs, a black one named "AM" and a white one named "FM."
City Hall had a very bad pigeon problem and they had tried everything to get rid of the birds, from audio signals to steel nets--there were "Don't feed" signs everywhere. Well, one day as I walked through the City Hall courtyard, I saw a very old lady dragging behind her a large burlap sack from which she pulled a fistful of seeds every ten steps, or so. Casting the seeds in the air, she instructed the pigeons to "Go s_it on the Jews."
I had to wonder if Philadelphia's well-known tag had been a counter measure.
All cleaned up.I guess there was a time when the building was as dirty as the politicians inside it. Thanks for the lore.
Philly Transformed Into ParisJust a couple of years ago Philadelphia City Hall was used as a stand-in for the military school in Paris when they were filming Transformers 2. Astute film buffs can also cite other movies where it was featured.
By the way, the William Penn statue is the work of Alexander Milne Calder, whose son and grandson also won fame as artists.
Critical appraisalWhen it was being built, City Hall was viewed as a textbook example of municipal graft, corruption and inefficiency, as well as being something of an aesthetic white elephant.
The Philadelphia essayist Agnes Repplier in 1898:
Its only claim to distinction should be the marvelous manner in which it combines bulk with sterling insignificance, squalid paltriness and decorations mediocre and painfully grotesque.
Now of course it's regarded as fashionably and fascinatingly ugly-funky-weird. And gets a lot of love just because it's way old.
Rude Billy PennThat's actually a scroll he's holding, but easily mistaken.
William Penn forgottenThere was a longstanding tradition in Philadelphia that no building would exceed the height of the statute of William Penn atop city hall. This was broken in the 1980's along with many other traditional values we once believed in. Too bad to my mind.
[Building height is a "traditional value"? - Dave]
Tallest BuildingsBy tallest building do you mean tallest occupied structure? Because the Washington Monument is 555 ft tall at was completed in 1884, and the Eiffel Tower is 896 ft and was completed in 1889.
[The Eiffel Tower and Washington Monument aren't buildings. - Dave]
Styles mixedThis has got to get the prize for the most architectural styles on one building that I have EVER seen!
The picture is a great shot for a game of "I Spy With My Little Eye"!
Ahhh, the smells of City HallOr, at least, the exterior public corridors. Always used to smell like pee back in the early 90s. It seems to be less pungent now. Such a fabulously ugly building.
Took the tour!I was one of two who showed up for the three-hour City Hall tour last October. We crawled all over and inside the building with a former city planner. What a treat. The inside is eye-popping. Carved, gilded mahogany and marble for as far as the eye can see. In places they used aluminum, only because it was valued more than gold at the time. The City Council chambers are unbelievable!
The formal entry room originally was designed to have 90-foot ceilings, but the weight of the main tower started to crack the marble walls so it was divided into two spectacular rooms with paltry 45-foot ceilings.
At 37 feet high and weighing 36 tons, the statue of William Penn at the top is the largest statue ever placed on top of a building. It is so big it sat on the ground for more than a year because no one could figure out how to get it up there. Eventually they cut it up into 14 pieces and reassembled it at the top.
This photo looks as if it was taken from the Masonic Hall across the street. That building is another eye-popping marvel with construction starting in 1868 and taking more than 40 years to complete. Take that tour as well. Words can not describe what you will see.
A common misconceptionIt's a common misconception that the City Hall tower was covered in soot due to the train station formerly located across the street. In fact, the old photos merely exhibit the different building materials used for the building and the tower. The tower is made of cast iron and appears black. Everything below the clock tower is marble and granite so it appears to be light grey. When City Hall was restored in 1990 the iron was coated so it wouldn't oxidize and today it appears to be light grey.
(The Gallery, DPC, Philadelphia, Streetcars)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/4a16383a.thumbnail.jpg "City Hall: 1910")
- Starlight Park: 1921
- ... the subject of "modern" women vs. the extremely appealing jazz babies I've seen here thus far, my question is, why on God's green earth ... service you're doing. The streetscapes - as well as the jazz babies, among the many other things here - are exceptional!!!
Twiggy ... Posted by Dave - 07/27/2012 - 12:24pm -
![June 1921. Eleanor Tierney at Starlight Park on the Bronx River at 177th Street. Eleanor, a Broadway chorus girl, married a banker and ended up in Larchmont. 5x7 glass negative, George Grantham Bain Collection. View full size.
Hairy gamsShe has more hair on her legs than some of those Confederate soldiers had on their chins. I bet it's a good thing her arms aren't raised.
EleanorYou could almost think this was a recent photo. She has a very modern look.
The suitWas this bathing suit considered risque at the time? I wonder, only because so-called "modesty suits" which are marketed to (mostly extremist) religious women these days (i.e. http://www.swimoutlet.com/product_p/11745.htm ) offer significantly more coverage than this item from nearly 90 years ago.
[It's not unusual for a 1920 bathing suit. - Dave]
Itchy & ScratchyThat suit looks mighty itchy... Is it wool?
A Little ChubbyA lot of those 1920 bathing beauties seem to be slightly pregnant I guess they weren't into washboard abs or heroin chic.
Grooming NotesWow, I guess women of the 20s were not too worried about shaving their legs. Of other interest, it appears that there is more material on the men's bathing suits of the day than on Eleanor's!
A real woman*sigh* every chorus girl's dream: to marry a banker and move to Larchmont....
RE: "Chubby," Seems that some men today are too used to the hyper airbrushed "perfect 10's" they see in the media. As apparent in comments seen here and elsewhere on Shorpy. Someone always seems to pipe up about weight.
Most women share a shape similar to Eleanor's. Not fat, not skinny, not hard-bodied, not total slobs--just real and healthy.
That being said, most of us do shave our legs nowadays.
Comment criteria?I find it interesting that every comment I've submitted to this site -- which have had to do with artistic decisions in photographs or societal conditions at the time the photos were taken -- has not appeared in the threads, and yet comments about the hair on this woman's legs or that say she looks "slightly pregnant" (please, calling her "a little chubby" is absolutely ridiculous) pass muster. This is a private blog, of course, and you may post comments or not as you please, but this thread is a bit annoying.
[Indeed. - Dave]
I like her attitude.I would seriously like to go back in time and hang out with this girl.
Concrete beach?What is she standing on?
[Concrete paving. - Dave]
Starlight ParkFrom what little I can find about Starlight Park, it was at 177th and Devoe and closed around 1940. The site is now occupied by a city bus barn.
From other writings, Eleanor was apparently standing on a "beach" at the edge of a large wave pool on the park grounds.
The chin-up pose is striking. Eleanor had confidence.
She's all that...and she knows it! Here's a woman with a healthy confidence and outlook!
Real women, indeedI agree that normal women are shaped like this young lady, if they're lucky; she was indeed a beautiful girl.
As a guy in his 60s, I would point out that the rage for anorexics is a fairly recent one, and I think that even young men would largely prefer a healthy woman to one who is obsessed with her weight. It seems to me that this is something that women have brought on themselves in the last 25 years or so. Maybe not.
It's also true that men like me knew lots and lots of unshaven European and American girls in the '60s and '70s. Natural and feminine women can be devastatingly attractive.
ShowboatAccording to
http://broadwayworld.com/people/Eleanor_Tierney/
Performances
Show Boat [Broadway]
Original Broadway Production, 1927
Lady of the Ensemble
More New York City photos requested...More photos of people and places in New York City that are no longer "there" would sure be welcomed here, a la' the vast file of DC scenes you've published to date.
[We have more than 400 NYC photos on the site. - Dave]
Where it was...If I'm reading my Yahoo! Map correctly, Starlight Park in the Bronx was just about where the northern terminus of Sheridan Parkway feeds off to East 177th Street, very close to East Tremont Avenue. The Bronx River is basically clean where in runs through the NY Botanical Garden, but I don't think I'd want to take a swim it it today where Starlight Park used to be.
Who wants plastic anorexia?I'm a relatively young man myself (37) and it's all the starved carpenter's dreams walking around these days that makes me really appreciate the beauty of this photo. Nothing fake or plastic here - to paraphrase, "it's all her, baby!" - and that's how I personally prefer women, inside as well as outside.
Since we're on the subject of "modern" women vs. the extremely appealing jazz babies I've seen here thus far, my question is, why on God's green earth have hips and real busts been outlawed the last 3 decades or so?
Dave, I can't tell you what a wonderful job and service you're doing. The streetscapes - as well as the jazz babies, among the many other things here - are exceptional!!!
Twiggy Go HomeTo answer the SwingMan's question: It's that darn Twiggy in the early 1970's. I wish she had quickly crawled back into the golf hole from whence she came.
*sigh*"It's also true that men like me knew lots and lots of unshaven European and American girls in the '60s and '70s. Natural and feminine women can be devastatingly attractive."
Heck, yes. That's a reason I keep coming back to this site.
The Hepburn FactorTwiggy was a latecomer in the thin-is-stylish sweepstakes. It actually dates back to Audrey Hepburn, the quintessential high-fashion template of the 50s. On a related note, let's not forget that of Katharine Hepburn (no relation), Spencer Tracy said, "Not much meat on her, but what there is is cherce." YMMV, of course.
Almost Nekkid!For its moment, ca. 1920, this is a mild news service cheesecake photo produced for one of New York's many illustrated dailies. Eleanor Tierney's two-piece wool jersey bathing suit is acceptable in 1920 but a bit risque in its lack of a skirt. Many women continued to wear corsets under their bathing suits until the mid-teens at least, and one-piece bathing suits for women would remain illegal on many American beaches until the early 1930s. Many viewers at the time would have considered her "almost nekkid." With her casually proud stance and short hair, Eleanor is expressing modernity and liberation from older values, embodying social changes that were exciting, controversial and hotly debated throughout the country.
Real WomenOnce again, Shorpy proves why it is my daily online morning ritual. Cup of coffee in hand, I have to peruse the jewels set up for daily display.
As a woman who would have been described a "sweater girl" back in the good old days, I have always been amazed and a bit irritated how normal, healthy women in pictures such as this are berated in the comments on Shorpy for their weight when they have the curves and lovely meat a woman is supposed to have.
I'm very glad I resemble Mae West rather than Twiggy, and I know not a few men who are as well.
Flat-Chested FlappersOdd that so many readers view thinness as a purely modern fashion phenomenon, although our rail-thin models are a record-setting extreme. By the mid-1920s the ideal beauty was "boyish," with very slim hips, long legs, a flat chest and very short hair. This was the culmination of a revolutionary fashion trend that began during World War I with "mannish" dresses that suppressed the hourglass body shapes of the 1890-1910 period. In the 1920s John Held's covers for Life and Judge magazines featured girls with barely noticeable breasts and no waistline. This is the basis for the joke in "Some Like It Hot," when Marilyn Monroe envies Jack Lemmon's figure (in drag). She says that his beaded necklace hangs straight, and complains that hers just go all over the place.
The Boyish LookSetting aside the fact that had the current fashion for anorexic actresses been in place fifty or sixty years ago we would have been robbed of the pleasure of watching Marilyn Monroe, the boyish look of the '20s was quite common, and would later come to be thoroughly misunderstood. If you've ever seen a not very good movie called "Getting Straight" which starred Elliott Gould and Candice Bergen, you may recall a scene in which Gould's character is defending his thesis on his favourite book "The Great Gatsby." One of the professors insists that Fitzgerald's description of Daisy is distinctly boyish and points to this as proof of Gatsby's (and maybe even Fitzgerald's - it's been a long time since I've seen the film) suppressed homosexuality. I at least see it as being as much a product of the fashions of the times as the descriptions of blacks in other novels of the period.
My Two CentsNot to belabor the point regarding women's curves, I can only think of the classic artists whose magnificent paintings of beautiful, fleshed-out female forms are unintentionally so much more interesting (as in erotic) than would be bone-thin, shapeless females exhibiting a dearth of both feminine hormones and sex appeal. Take for example Venus, September Morn, the entire works of Rubens, Botticelli and hundreds of other artists and paintings that celebrate the true nature of the female form. Of course, then we have Botero, who makes all his figures very short and very stocky, but they are such great fun to look at. I can't imagine the great painters even desiring to paint the anorexic girls on the runways today. Just had to add my humble opinion to the mix. Thank you for not only the fascinating photos but also the stimulating discussions they inspire.
EleanorEleanor, gee I think you're swell, and you really do me well, you're my pride and joy, etcetera... ©the Turtles
...this beauty can model for me any time.
WOW...That is some hairdo! Very pretty woman.
Can this be back in style?I absolutely love her bathing suit. I may need to get to work on one not made out of wool...
Re: Show BoatShe's a chorus girl, too? Can she GET any more awesome?
Why this photo?DO you know why this photo was taken? Was it a private photo? Or was it taken as publicity for the show she is appearing in at the time (being a chorus girl) or for the park itself? It has all the hallmarks of a professional photo due to the angle and her stance.
[The Bain News Service photos were all professional. - Dave]
EleanorSomething about the way she is standing and the look on her faces tells me that Eleanor might have been that girl who knew how to have a good time. Love the photo.
Eleanor TierneyAccording to census records and the NY Times archives, Eleanor married John A. Van Zelm. He died of pneumonia on August 1, 1937. Eleanor died on June 22, 1948.
Chubby? Slightly Pregnant??!!Honestly, get a clue. She just happens to have internal organs. Gee,if only they could come up with plastic surgery to remove them.
Starlight Park in my LifeI admire the candid of Ms. Tierney, but the background is most interesting. I knew Starlight Park more than a quarter century later. By then there were no remnants of roller coasters or the like. The arena had been converted to a bus barn by Third Avenue Transit( taken over and operated now by the government transit op.) Many of the stucco buildings with red tile roofs were either destroyed,falling down or abandoned playgrounds for kids. That pool she is standing beside had a large sandy beach area and was of monumental proportions. It was the length of a football field, oriented east-west. At the west end, beyond the paved promenade, was a retaining wall and the land fell off sharply to the Bronx River. When this photo was taken this was largely an area that was undeveloped.
The 180th Street Crosstown trolley (X route) went by and there was the West Farms junction of several trolley routes (after 1948 all buses) about a quarter mile away. The White Plains Road IRT elevated line with a Bronx Zoo destination had a stop another few blocks further west.
In the 1940s when I frequented the place, it was because I accompanied my father, who was a soccer buff, when he went there on Sundays to doubleheaders of the German-American Soccer league. Not withstanding the leagues moniker; the NY Hungarians, Praha, Savoia, Hakoah, Eintracht, Brooklyn Wanderers, Bronx Scots, my old man's former team the NY Corinthians, and a plethora of teams with non-teutonic associations made up the league. There were professional leagues that had a larger territorial range, but almost all of the players in those days were either immigrants, or their first generation progeny. The GA was the MISL of that time. There was no real money to pay living wages to soccer players so either industrial teams, like the Uhrich Truckers in St. Louis, or semi pros - like those from the G-A league were the source of the best players in the country. Yogi Berra, and Joe Garagiola who grew up on "The Hill" in St. Louis, were part of a similar world and played soccer for local Italo-American sides there as children and teens.
I know this seems strange, when the American goalie Brad Fridl pulls down 5 million bucks from Aston Villa in Birmingham in the UK Premier League, but until the Spaniards and Italians started offering whatever wages they would to get the best players, the British paid washers to professional soccer players. Ten pounds a week was the fixed rate in the forties for UK soccer players. Liverpool offered a NYPD sergeant named Miller, who was the G-A all star teams goalie, a contract. He would have had to have taken a substantial pay cut to have gone there. Foreign wage pressures, and the fixing of games by underpaid players has changed that forever. The Post War would change everything, but meanwhile the German-American League was the best we had.
In the early 1950s, I was at Randall's Island Stadium when the G-A League All Stars beat Kaiserslauten , the German Bundesliga champions, 2-0. So Starlight Park's large playing field, north of the pool site ruins, was, along with Sterling Oval, and a field across the road from Con Edison in the south Bronx, were the places where the best soccer in the US was being played.
As a young kid, I and the sons and daughters of the immigrants tore around the ruins playing games, built fires to roast spuds and marshmallows and the like, while our parents watched the games and relived their own athletic youths. Unfortunately, it wasn't all a halcyon time in the ruins for us. Charley, a 12-year-old acquaintance, was murdered by a sexual pervert there after swimming in the Bronx River.
I never knew the place in its heyday, and I wish I had been there to ride the roller coaster and swim in such an immense pool. Still, it provided a different set of experiences and meaning to another generation.
Good-Luck,
Peter J.
Eleanor in ColorWhen this photo originally appeared on Shorpy last year, I decide it was a good experiment for hand-coloring. I did this in Adobe Illustrator CS2, not a traditional photo-manipulation program. With the recent mania for colorizing, I thought I'd jump on the bandwagon. Fire away, philistines!
[The system deleted your attachment because it was wider than 490 pixels. Please read and follow the posting instructions! - Dave]
More Starlight PixI first became aware of Starlight Park from a photo in Roger Arcara's "Westchester's Forgotten Railway" (1960). Now, the Internet and this web page have opened a whole new box of nostalgic pleasures. I have uploaded more Starlight Park pix here.
Beach hairYes, it appears that Eleanor is both confident and fun-loving! It also appears that (by the look of her carefree 'beached-out' tresses) she has been SWIMMING this lovely day. This makes me very happy! I imagine that not too many women of the day would purposely submerge their HEAD in the salt water, much less consent afterwards to having their portrait made. That said, I have no doubt that for stage and most all other social appearances, Eleanor made diligent use of hair straightening rods, pin curlers, scented hair oils, etc. How do I know this? I (and all the other women in my family) have Eleanor's hair.
Pool I wonder how they took care of keeping a pool of this size clean in 1921. I don't think they had Olin's HTH product at the time.
(The Gallery, G.G. Bain, NYC, Pretty Girls, Swimming)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/32491u1.thumbnail.jpg "Starlight Park: 1921")
- Vivien Garry: 1947
- ... New York. "Vivien Garry and Teddy Kaye at Dixon's." The jazz bassist and her pianist, two-thirds of the Vivien Garry Trio. Acetate ... of Ohio" Garry was both an accomplished jazz singer and bassist.
https://jazzresearch.com/vivien-garry-on-record/ ... Posted by Dave - 01/26/2023 - 3:20pm -
- Beat Me Daddy: 1942
- ...
Beat Me Daddy ... Eight to the Bar!
Pedigree "Jazz drummer Oliver Coleman was born in Beaumont, Texas, in 1914. Coleman was ... drums.
Oliver Coleman recordings online: 1938-1956 Jazz Online includes 31 recordings on which Coleman is credited as Drums. ... Posted by Dave - 01/24/2023 - 10:48am -
- Lounge Act: 1948
- New York circa 1948. "Jazz singer at the Onyx Club, 52nd Street." We trust that this canary won't ... pictures, just scroll down.
http://popspotsnyc.com/jazz_clubs/
I would say Norma Jean Marilyn Monroe did some singing ... one on Pinterest, "Miss June Christy: Live on Stars of Jazz (1957)", that shows her ear, and the comparison is strong.
Wikipedia ... Posted by Dave - 02/01/2019 - 1:06pm -
![New York circa 1948. "Jazz singer at the Onyx Club, 52nd Street." We trust that this canary won't stay unidentified for long. Medium format Kodachrome transparency by Down Beat photographer William Gottlieb. View full size.
Is it June Christy?It looks a lot like her so that's my guess.
[Probably not. - Dave]
Kodachrome NoirA photo more evocative of the 1940s than this one would be hard to imagine. Here we have the sultry blonde singer winning the rapt attention of the (likely) husband of the poised, sophisticated, bepearled, Bacall-eyebrowed smoker, who is engaged in conversation with an attentive, lacquer-manicured gent while the slicked-down, slightly scarred tough guy on the right stares menacingly at he camera. All this scene needs is Humphrey Bogart.
Just a HunchI'm gonna guess it's Peggy Lee.
Girl drinksThe men are drinking some kind of golden-colored liquor (whisky?) on the rocks while the women have an amber-colored cordial in a tall stemmed glass, neat. Wonder what it is.
I'm 99% sure it's Peggy LeeBecause I think the pianist is her husband of many years, Dave Barbour. Google Image him and the face that comes up is a dead ringer.
[These are two different people, and Dave Barbour played the guitar. - Dave]
Album cover photoThis picture is used as an album cover photo. Possibly Julie London?
[Doubtful. - Dave]
http://www.elusivedisc.com/The-Wonderful-Sounds-of-Female-Vocals-200g-2L...
A bit of Lynch too!The red curtains look like the inspiration for David Lynch and "Twin Peaks"! Looking forward to finding out details. Is there a historic Down Beat website?
Studio ShotThis might be a posed photo for that album. Since several singers are listed, seems reasonable the producers would just want a shot that make the point about the different female singers. In other words, no featured singer on the cover of the album.
[This is not a "studio shot." As noted in the caption, the photo was taken in the Onyx Club. It is cover art for an album released in 2018. - Dave]
Wonder if there's a photo credit on the actual album? Think Vexman has a very good point.
[The photo credit is "Photo by William Gottlieb." - Dave]
Red HerringsIt's not someone on the LP set; they're all too young. My vote is for Jeri Southern.
Helen Forrest?It rather looks like Helen and the hairstyle is one she sometimes wore as a blonde and brunette. She was headlining at clubs and theatres in the late 40s after singing with the Harry James Orchestra, recording with Dick Haymes and appearing in a couple of movies earlier in the decade.
The Bartender's Standard CocktailsI'd bet the ladies are drinking Manhattans and the men Scotch on the rocks, two standards of my parents' generation. Of course my dad preferred the Old Fashioned, but the glassware is wrong for that.
That album cover has nothing to do with the music on the album. It was royalty-free art so it was used.
Another shot of this singer Note the mole.
Shorpy hive mind ...... is letting me down! It is killing me not to know who this is, because she looks so damn familiar! It's not Frances Langford (my first thought), Peggy Lee, Martha Tilton, Helen Forrest, Helen Merrill, Jo Stafford, June Christy, Martha Mears -- augh!
Definitely Peggy LeePhoto dated 1950.
[I would have to say definitely not. - Dave]
Might not be a singer at allThis is quite obviously a posed shot. It might even have been done in a studio, though could have been setup in a club off-hours. Lighting is done purely for the photo.
[As noted in the caption under the photo, it was taken at the Onyx Club on 52nd Street. One of hundreds of similar photos taken by William Gottlieb for Down Beat magazine, none of which are "studio shots." Please READ THE CAPTION before commenting. - Dave]
Good a guess as any I supposeI'm thinking Evelyn Knight OR Eva Peron (okay, just kidding on that second guess but hey, the hair matches).
International Woman of MysteryIn 1948, following a gig at the Onyx Club in New York, the Exotic Esteleta Morrow played Cuba's Night Club in Asbury Park, New Jersey from August 1st to the 8th. She was never heard of before, never seen since, and no photo ever found. She gets my vote.
What a great mystery!I'm with dwig. The lighting -- evidently a strobe from the left behind the camera, the careful framing of the blonde -- point to that. Even the pianist doesn't really look like he's playing. Everybody is so compact and carefully placed. It's a shot for the magazine, not during an actual live performance. So who knows who the model for the singer is? Any other pix by the photographer that also feature that model?
[All of William Gottlieb's 1,700-plus photos in this collection were "shot for the magazine." They can be seen here. We can tell this was taken at the Onyx Club by comparing it with his other photos taken there. And yes, Gott did use supplementary lighting. Below, his photo of the Stan Kenton band. - Dave]
Could it beLee Wiley? If so, the piano player is her husband, Jess Stacy.
[Lee Wiley was born in 1908. - Dave]
How about Marion Hutton?I'm too tech-impaired to figure out how to upload the photo, but to me the woman in these photos looks very much like the woman in this photo:
https://loc.gov/item/gottlieb.08661
(It's one of a series of photos of Ms. Hutton with Jerry Wald, Mel Torme, and Gordon MacRae taken by William Gottlieb that ran in Downbeat in 1947.)
[Marion is missing the mole. She also has attached earlobes. - Dave]
Late entryAll about the NYC night club scene. Many pictures, just scroll down.
http://popspotsnyc.com/jazz_clubs/
I would say Norma JeanMarilyn Monroe did some singing along with modeling during her early career.
[If only this lady looked remotely like Marilyn Monroe! - Dave]
This lady's hard to find!I'm guessing Dottie Reid. Same photographer, same club, same ear lobes. Could the mole be make-up?
https://www.loc.gov/resource/gottlieb.12551.0
[It's not Dot. - Dave]
Second GuessingRosemary Clooney? Maybe she had the mole removed later?
[If this were some even halfway famous singer, she'd be named in the caption. (And if this were Rosemary Clooney, she'd look like Rosemary Clooney.) Does the answer await in some dusty back issue of Down Beat? - Dave]
I didn't look through old Down Beat issues but after some sleuthing I am confident it's Betty Grable. The ear lobes provided the clue.
[That's not Betty Grable. - Dave]
The politics of itYou're doing a record album featuring female singers. Of course, you'd like to show a female singer doing her thing on the jacket. The problem then becomes, which female? How can you place one of the ladies from your album on the cover? That might cause issues with the other singers. If you photograph a lesser known singer [they have fans too] for the cover, HER followers will want to know why she isn't in the album.
My bet is that this mystery singer is no singer at all, but a generic "stand in" for the genre. There! Peace is maintained, and all of these talented women will be willing to work for you again in the future.
[Um, no. William Gottlieb didn't shoot album cover art. He was a photojournalist who took pictures for Down Beat magazine as well as other publications. - Dave]
A clue, perhaps?I may not be very good at 'em, but I can't resist a challenge!
I went over to the LOC site to get a closer look at the original, to see if any further details could be gleaned. Apart from what appears to be sheet music or a magazine on the piano, there's nothing that appears to give even an approximate date.
I don't know much about photography, but I noticed in the upper right hand corner what seemed to be some sort of identification number (367-33). Operating on the assumption that it identified the specific roll of film used, I went back to the main page and looked around for any other Gottlieb shots with that ID (or at least the first three digits). Sure enough, there's a day shot of 52nd with the Onyx right in the center, same ID number.
[This is sheet film, not roll film, and that's a lot number, shared by other exposures dated July 1948. - Dave]
Gottlieb was too far away and the Onyx's front was in too much shadow to see if there were any showcards, but it appears that one Harry the Hipster was on the list that day (if he wasn't a regular feature). But what *is* clearly visible is the featured artists over at the Three Deuces: Erroll Garner, J. C. Heard, and (Oscar) Pettifo(rd).
The Wikipedia article for Erroll Garner features another Gottlieb shot of the same marquee, identifying it as taken in May 1948 without any concrete attribution. Given the cool-weather dress of the good folk of New York in both pictures, however, early May or late April might not be an unreasonable assumption to make.
I think it would be simple, then, to pin down when Garner, Heard and Pettiford were playing the Deuces and then, perhaps, cross-check who was playing the Onyx on those same dates.
Whoever it may be, it's not June ChristyHow about Lennie Tristano in drag? No, wait a minute, Lennie's not a vocalist. I'll get back to you --
Wouldn't it have to be one of the singers on the album?Side A:
1. Cry Me A River - Julie London
2. Black Coffee - Ella Fitzgerald
3. --
[ The album is a compilation released last year. This photo was used as cover art because it was free. - Dave]
Not in Down BeatI'm afraid the photos from this shoot were not used by Down Beat at all, in 1948 at any rate. Today I went through the bound volumes of Down Beat from January 1948 to June 1949, without success. To err on the side of certainty, I read every single caption with a New York dateline, and compared every headshot of a female singer (there were several in every issue, mostly obscure) to Ms. Mole. Nothing.
Down Beat did have a regular feature "Where the Bands Are Playing" which listed some 200 or 300 bands and solo singers and the venues where they'd be appearing for the next couple of weeks (as DB was biweekly); but sadly it's alphabetised by name of act and not by venue!
[It might be worthwhile to look in the 1947 issues as well. The years on many of these photos are based on publication dates; the pictures may have been taken weeks or months earlier. In addition, some of Gottlieb's work appeared in the July 3, 1948, issue of Collier's. - Dave]
New Yorker no helpI looked at a bunch of 1948 New Yorkers but pretty much the only acts they listed for the Onyx Club (which they cover sporadically in Talk of the Town) were Charlie Parker and the Merry Macs (separately, of course). This woman doesn't seem to resemble either of the female singers with the Merry Macs at the time, Marjory Garland or Imogene Lynn, based on the very small number of pictures available online ... sigh.
Uncle!I give up. I've spent far too many hours on this. I looked at every publication of his at the LOC, and googled a myriad of search terms/phrases, and I just can't figure it out. Please tell us?
June Christy, I thinkWith her mouth open and her eyes closed, it's hard to compare this to other photos, but there's one on Pinterest, "Miss June Christy: Live on Stars of Jazz (1957)", that shows her ear, and the comparison is strong.
Wikipedia says, "When the Kenton Band temporarily disbanded in 1948, she sang in nightclubs for a short time." So the date fits.
[Below, June Christy and her attached earlobe circa 1947, definitely not the lady in our photo. - Dave]
Stumped, But More InfoI tried to ID the lady and could not. However, while doing that I learned that Gottlieb left Down Beat magazine in 1947. For what it's worth, either the date of the photo shoot is off or it ran in a later issue after he left.
[It may have been taken for another publication. The lot number on the transparency is the same as for other exposures dated July 1948. - Dave]
Not in Collier's None of the photos accompanying the Gottlieb article in the July 3, 1948, issue of Collier's ("Good-Time Street: The story of the most raucous and colorful block in New York" by Bill Gottlieb) were taken at the Onyx.
[Incorrect. The photo below of Harry Gibson, which illustrates the article, was taken at the Onyx. - Dave]
My apologies! I thought "Harry The Hipster" was the owner of another nightspot! I should have recognized those red curtains, shouldn't I?
Helen Merrill?Suggested earlier, but I also think she's Helen Merrill, b. 1930 in Croatia. Merrill was singing in jazz clubs at age 14, and the performer shown here certainly looks young enough to be 17-18.
[Helen Merrill has attached earlobes, real eyebrows and no mole. And the lady in our photo is no teenager. - Dave]
MoleThe mole means nothing. It was common for women of that era to paint one on their face as a beauty spot.
["Beauty marks" are something you're born with. And no woman would put a "beauty spot" in that spot. - Dave]
(The Gallery, Kodachromes, Music, NYC, William Gottlieb)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-jazz_singer_club_onyx_52nd_street.thumbnail.jpg "Lounge Act: 1948")
- Strop Mall: 1936
- ... in Vicksburg, Barnes was raised in Chicago and became a jazz clarinetist, saxophonist, and bandleader. In the 1930s he and his ... Posted by Dave - 01/06/2023 - 7:25pm -
- Party of Four: 1956
- ... with such sharp details. Then, too, I am 81 and a jazz historian, jaded by having hundreds of photos around the apartment.candid ... "The thrill is gone" was recorded by mostly every pop and jazz singer in that era. Julie London, Peggy Lee, Ella Fitzgerald, Sinatra, ... Posted by Dave - 11/25/2021 - 5:10pm -
![As a follow-up to yesterday's Pastel Princesses we present a retinue of possible Princes, or maybe court jesters, at what looks like the same event. Live it up while you can, boys. 35mm Kodachrome from the "Linda" slides. View full size.
Ma!Have you seen my red socks? I'm late for the dance!!!
The Cast of "Diner"The Early Years.
The charm and uniquenessof Shorpy is, in my opinion, somewhat diminished by the inclusion of family Kodachrome snapshots. I still make my daily visits, but—as Billie used to sing—the thrill is gone. Am I alone in thinking so?
A little dab'll do yaCheck out the hair tonic stain on the walls.
You may not be aloneIn your finding your viewing pleasure diminished, but I'm sure that you are outnumbered 1000 to 1.
I think these two last dance photos show the old saying to be true. Girls mature faster than boys. And not just physically.
Wider visionI am one of the many who finds that "the charm and uniqueness of Shorpy" is in no way diminished by the inclusion of photos from family collections of the past 50 years. Considering Shorpy as the place of photos only a century old, or exclusively black and white, is an unnecessary limitation. It's much easier to see it as repository of so much more. Broaden the vision, Chris Albertson, and let yourself settle comfortably into the range and variety of what Shorpy has to offer. It won't hurt a bit.
Pocket squareIf only we could see what those blue and white ticket/program things are in both of these pictures. At first I thought it was the same guy but they have different ties (and ears!). I love these candid snapshots.
[He might be the boy with his back to the camera in the other photo. - Dave]
Love It AllI love seeing these smiling boys who seemed to have left their dance dates to wonder where they went.
I'm a fan of every genre of Shorpy pic. Yes, I'm partial to ones showing old houses because we're restoring a Victorian and become enthused over clapboard, millwork, and knob and tube wiring, but I like the other pictures, too.
You're alone, ChrisViewing glimpses of the past, whether 100 years or 50, is fascinating.
My wife would tan my hide!Red socks, especially with blue slacks? I would never live that down.
As for the inclusion of family Kodachrome slides, I enjoy them. The reason I like Shorpy is because it gives a glimpse of times past. Sometimes the family photos do a better job than some of the sterile professional photos.
The enrichment of ShorpyChris Albertson, a couple of years ago, I had the same opinion that you have now. I became annoyed by the postings of tterrance, but still maintained my daily visits. I am just 3 years younger than you, and have slowly realized that these more modern pictures are part of Shorpy's growth and our own past. Let's hope that some viewers will put names to some of these eBay finds. Respectfully, Urcunina
Interesting comment Chris, Hi Chris,
As a genealogist and family historian, I found over the last few years that Shorpy was an invaluable historic resource for my research. Sure, i would "surf" anonymously but that was that; got my info and off I went. But some days I would just look 'into' places. Literally, zoom up and into the lives of the residents of the cities and neighborhoods featured here. I just couldn't believe where these images would lead me. The most interesting stories and facts and especially the comments. Regular folks, not necessarily experts, just interesting folks. It was these "folks" who drew my attention more and more. I agree that historic and/or "slices in time or life" images seem to be the most engaging, but these Kodachromes are most definitely part of photographic history. They are indeed unique imagery. They are historic AND deteriorating very quickly in drawers, closet shelves, carousels buried in garages and scattered in boxes in attics around the world. When one of these gorgeous images is posted and you begin to read the story and see the real living color of a time gone-by and the comments pour in and you peek at the numbers and see thousands (!!) of "reads", well you gotta feel some excitement and thrill of the "get". Just figuring out the puzzle of a time and day just out of memory or reach for many of us, or the makeup of an interesting family from New England, well it's like a treasure hunt. And aren't those so much fun? It is admittedly a great and grand waste of time I suppose, but most certainly, the best fun since Facebook launched 9 years ago, and quite possibly new beginnings for these images and their owners. For me and my extended family, sharing our Kodachromes is a tribute to the family members (many already gone) who took the time to lug a bulky, clunky, camera around and set up and snap a pic for us all to enjoy just a couple of times on the dining room wall. Now we are really enjoying them again, along with a surprisingly large number of people. It just feels wonderful. I hope you will continue to enjoy the historic quality of these beautiful images as well as the amazing resources from the LOC and Detroit Publishing etc... But please most of all, I hope that you also appreciate the men and women that are working literally 24/7 on Shorpy.com (not to mention all those folks sitting at home, eyes glued to the screen, mouse at the ready) bringing these images to us all day and all night. They ARE Shorpy.
Regards, Deborah
CharmingI actually do enjoy the family snapshots. It's great fun to look at what people were doing in their everyday lives. Shorpy has it all!
re: charm and uniquenessI have to disagree. I love the family pics. Sometimes I find the Dorothea Lange types depressing.
Also, Did Billie Holiday sing "The Thrill Is Gone"? I always thought it was BB King's song, didn't realize it was a cover.
Diminished? Not at all.I think these Kodachromes are as valuable to Shorpy as all the other historical pictures. Where else do you see unknown people, photographed by unknown photographers, in unknown places, and hope that there will be the one comment:
"OMG that's me taken by my uncle Bill at our junior sock hop."
It will happen.
100 years from nowthese sort of photos will be just as fascinating to people as any of the older, more "serious" examples on Shorpy. Every moment is history as soon as it passes. How lucky we are that occasionally, someone catches it on film, or video, even digitally. It's all wonderful and so is Shorpy!
I can see what Chris is sayingI think the Kodachromes are either hit or miss. Some I enjoy while others (the majority) I could do without. But I don't run the site and I can't complain if I don't find a particular image interesting because there are more than enough images on here to keep my occupied.
The site as a whole is really unique. And one should keep in mind that "beauty" is in the eye of the beholder. Ergo, an image that might delight one viewer is sure to bore another.
No Smoking?But there appears to be a pack of smokes on the ledge of that little window.
Also, count me in as one who really enjoys this type of photograph, then again I collect other peoples old home movies so I'm biased.
These are every bit as interesting as the LOC type of photo and probably a more realistic slice of Vintage American life since many of the LOC pictures are staged to some extent.
The overwhelming response to my postis appreciated, but it also made me sort of analyze my own expressed opinion.
I think it boils down to the fact that I have so many family Kodachromes of my own and such snapshots are readily found on the internet. Shorpy's more regular fare, those wonderful old photos and the remarkable clarity achieved by tterrance and crew are not as easily Googled and rarely presented with such sharp details. Then, too, I am 81 and a jazz historian, jaded by having hundreds of photos around the apartment.candid shots from the 50s on up bring back memories to me, but not the discovery that makes Shorpy so speciale. So, I guess I have been spoiled by the delights of Shorpy. I still love this site and recommend it (one of my two blogs has had a Shorpy link for three years).
Thank you all for the comments and thank you tterrance for the site and this forum. I hope I haven't been too disruptive.
P.S. Yes, AuntieVi, BB King certainly made "The Thrill is Gone" his own and turned it into a hit. I heard Billie sing it in person, but I don't think she recorded it.
RegardlessOf the photo, black and white or superb color, recent or ancient, they are glimpses into our past and help us visualize, if only for a moment, what life was like back then. And in some cases, see ourselves as we were. Love to know where those stairs went up to, obviously some sort of service stair based on appearance, why was the access open to them. This band of merry makers look like they'd be just the ones to sneak up and create a ruckus.
AshtrayUnderneath guy on right, with smoldering cigarette. (Hey, they're not in the main hall but in the shenanigans room. There's one in every building when you're a teenager.)
Charming and uniqueThat's what the guy third from left believes about his choice in socks.
Is That a Ceiling on the Wall?I guess the tin fits everywhere kind of like this mix of photos fits throughout Shorpy. I enjoy all the ages presented especially if you can see that other generations were just as squirrelly as mine no matter what the social norm.
Re: Lincrusta. Thanks Mattie, that's interesting and makes sense. Cheaper than wood molding and less fragile than formed plaster. I think it does need a paint adhesion inspection if possible.
As per Chris AlbertsonNot to jump on the wagon or anything, but I have just now joined the site after a year or so of browsing to offer the following comment: not all of your viewers are camera aficionados steeped in the history of photography or, dare I say it, of an older generation. I am no spring chicken, having been born in the late 1970s, but almost every single photograph on here predates me and I learn from and enjoy seeing all of them, family Kodachrome snapshots included.
Not diminished at allI love this site and don't see the inclusion of Kodachromes as diminishing it at all! Keep up the great work!
No spring chicken?Orange56, I sincerely hope you don't feel "over the hill" at mid-30's! Chris Albertson has a little fewer years on me, than I do on you; you've got a long way to go, youngster!
Everybody and their uncles"The thrill is gone" was recorded by mostly every pop and jazz singer in that era. Julie London, Peggy Lee, Ella Fitzgerald, Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Mel Torme and on and on. (I don't think Michael Bolton has recorded it yet but he probably will...I'm kidding about M.B.) Critics like to give him a hard time, so I'm piling on too.
These old KodachromesI like that they've been included. My parents would have been approximately this age in the early fifties and I enjoy seeing what life was like in a unrehearsed kind of way.
Ceiling on the wallIt's a heavily-textured wallpaper known as Lincrusta or Anaglypta. It's sturdy stuff and can hold up well under layers of paint. If we knew where this building is located, we might learn how well it holds up under layers of hair tonic.
More color Kodachromes!!!I love the 100 year old b/w photos, but the color Kodachromes make Shorpy a much more "thrilling" site for so many more people. Keep them coming...even up to the 70's & 80's. They are necessary to keep Shorpy relevant to a larger population of internet users.
Fuggedaboutit!My first (and second) thought on this photo is that it looks like some of the gang from "The Sopranos". It's a little before their time, but I still see it every time I look at this photo.
Farked!https://www.fark.com/comments/11937855
(Farked, Linda Kodachromes)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY_Linda147.thumbnail.jpg "Party of Four: 1956")
- The Tall Cowboy: 1919
- ... that much overtime.
Today he would play for the Utah Jazz, and even as a middling player would command about $56 million over a ... Posted by Dave - 08/27/2012 - 5:06pm -
- Lady Cathcart: 1926
- ... newsreels. It's easy to imagine this being read by a Jazz age "newsman":
Fashionably dressed Jazz Age actress and English countess Vera Cathcart poses for pictures after ... Posted by Dave - 09/04/2012 - 11:10pm -
![March 15, 1926. Washington, D.C. "Lady Cathcart, Austin Fairman & George Vivian." Countess Vera Cathcart, playwright-star of the theatrical flop "Ashes of Love," whose visit to America was notable mostly for a scandal involving a champagne-filled bathtub. National Photo glass negative. View full size.
Shoes with lightning boltsand the 1926 version of "feathered hair" indicates she may have been a trendsetter. Can't imagine how many magnums of champagne it would take to fill a bathtub but I'm hoping a Shorpy commenter will give us the details on that scandalous story.
[That "feathered hair" is a feather. - Dave]
Austin's thoughts"I keep smelling insecticide, or is it really cheap bootlegged champagne?"
Ashes of LoveIt was indeed a flop. The three-act play opened its Broadway run at the National Theatre (now Nederlander) on West 41st Street on March 22, 1926, and closed after only eight performances.
Film at ElevenHere's a short clip of her that was probably featured in one of the old Hollywood gossip newsreels. It's easy to imagine this being read by a Jazz age "newsman":
Fashionably dressed Jazz Age actress and English countess Vera Cathcart poses for pictures after she is delayed from entering the United States on charges of "moral turpitude."
Might need to Drink a bathtub full of champagne to be in the mood for Lady Cathcart.
She reminds me of someoneI've got it!
Wet "Party"Details here.
"Moral Interpitude"It looks like she had a wandering eye, in more ways than one.
Oh, don't mock Vera.How very dull of you unreconstructed types to respond to such an intriguing photo with nothing but sniping about her looks. I'm quite taken with her: she seems to have been a fascinating and determined character, with excellent earl-seducing skills.
Bad review of the play, quoted in a McCall's article:
"This reviewer must admit that he was strongly impressed with the countess in her efforts for entrance into the country, especially so when the opposition was on ground of moral turpitude, but had the opposition been on the ground of her claim as an actress, we would have to be with the immigration people."
It's a fantastic image of George Vivian. I wonder if he was directing?
(The Gallery, Natl Photo)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY_27543u.thumbnail.jpg "Lady Cathcart: 1926")
- Toy Story: 1923
- ... ). The mother of jazz vocalist Stephanie Nakasian, Patricia passed away in 1996.
... Posted by Dave - 09/13/2011 - 6:20pm -
- Doris Day: 1922-2019
- ... but most people don't know that she was also a great jazz singer. She made an album called Duet in the 1960s. She was accompanied by jazz pianist Andre Previn. Jazz critics loved it. It's one of my favorite ... Posted by Dave - 07/24/2022 - 10:42am -
- Cherokee Parts: 1936
- ... Is it just me or does that beautiful lettering scream Jazz Age!! ?
From cars to packing machines Cherokee Parts Store was at ... Posted by Dave - 07/22/2012 - 2:43pm -
![March 1936. "Auto parts shop. Atlanta, Georgia." Large-format nitrate negative by Walker Evans for the Farm Security Administration. View full size.
Modern Day WheelThe wheel directly below the "A" and "R" of "garage" looks like it could easily be used on one of today's cars.
Sure Beat UpThis truck appears to be a 1928-29 Ford cobbled out of something else. The rear of the cab isn't from a stock pickup. Really beat up for a vehicle 7-8 years old. And those Model A's were built like a tank. It's had a rough life.
InvitingOh, imagine opening the place up and starting work by hanging all those car parts up. And then imagine the passing punters: "that looks nice, especially that fender there - I think I'll have them do my car right away!".
Mystery MetalI can't for the life of me figure out where that large apparent body part hanging under the word "Used" would go on a car. Anyone know?
[Front right fender. - Dave]
Ah, OK, we're seeing it from the top, then, and it's a lot deeper than it looks here. Thanks.
Greatest HitsThis photo was the inspiration for the cover art on the album "Alice Cooper's Greatest Hits."
Whoa!, that font!Is it just me or does that beautiful lettering scream Jazz Age!! ?
From cars to packing machinesCherokee Parts Store was at 973 Marietta Street in Atlanta. That location is now home to a packing machine company.
View Larger Map
re: Greatest HitsInteresting - apparently, Drew Struzan drew the "Greatest Hits" artwork with the band surrounded by iconic stars. The original included 13 stars who were still alive, which presented a problem, so they had to re-do it without those individuals. A related piece doesn't really resemble the garage in Evans' photograph, but does include the name:
Quite the place back in the dayIt seems that this place was a real chick magnet at the time.
Re Modern day wheelIn fact, my eyes double-took when I saw that wheel, which is not too different from the ones on my E-Class MB. And, boy, they did have a lot of merchandise to hang outside while their morning coffees were cooling, didn't they?
Is that you, Jack?Probably not, but the young guy inside the garage sure looks like a young Kerouac. 'Course Kerouac lived in Massachusetts then. The young lady on the far left seems to have noticed something--maybe the guy--in spite of her disgust at having to be there at that smelly old garage while her mother gets new tires.
'29 Ford roadster pickupThat's a 1928 or '29 Ford Model A roadster pickup, looking mostly original except for the wheels and the absence of its top, doors and spare tire. The fabric top was removable, but not foldable, and the car had no side windows, only side curtains that clipped onto the doors and windshield.
Font NameTo JeffK: although the sign appears to be hand painted, the font that inspired the lettering is "Windsor." The sign painter did not copy the typeface with 100 per cent accuracy, but after 40 years in the graphic design business, I'd say Windsor!
Just down the streetThis is just down the street where my dad (a mechanic) grew up. He probably visited the shop many times.
AirwheelsThat Model A is wearing a pair of aftermarket low-pressure tires on the rear, also known as Jumbos, the tire and rim combination were offered by several tire companies and claimed improved ride and handling over the narrower high-pressure stock units.
Those wheels are rarely seen on restored vehicles today because those special sizes haven't been reproduced, modern tires will fit on them so they do see some use by traditional hot-rod builders.
Wheels,etc.The large part hanging under the used sign is a fender as mentioned in an earlier post. It is from a 1930/31 Ford.
I would love to see under the hood. I would bet money it has a Flathead V8 in it. The front wheels are off of a 32 or later which means they have probably changed from mechanical brakes to hydraulic and the rear wheels look the GM "Artillery" wheels used on later 30's GM cars. The wheel hanging on the wall behind the woman is a stock 29/31 model A wheel. I think this may be the shops hot rod parts truck.
NASCAR ConnectionAbout 13 years after this picture was taken, Cherokee Auto Parts began sponsoring Gober Sosebee in the earliest years of NASCAR. Both his #50 and #51 cars carried the name on their doors. He had 2 wins, 4 poles, and 33 top tens in a 71 race career.
(The Gallery, Atlanta, Cars, Trucks, Buses, Walker Evans)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY_8c52233u.thumbnail.jpg "Cherokee Parts: 1936")
- Miss Washington: 1922
- ... down I always thought that phrase from "All That Jazz" in the musical "Chicago!" was a strange lyric.
Rolling down your ... of the photo. Very witty indeed.
Friends Jazz Age edition
One more reason "LOL" was invented To react ... Posted by Dave - 04/30/2013 - 11:01am -
- Take Five: 1922
- ... use today, which was developed in 1900. The first black jazz players often bought old obsolete instruments shipped over from Europe so that may be where it came from. Even today some jazz players prefer playing on older key system instruments.
Where Shall We ... Posted by Dave - 07/10/2016 - 12:52am -
![New York circa 1922. "Paul Specht Orchestra, Hotel Astor Roof Garden." Take five, boys, and don't burn the house down. 5x7 inch glass negative. View full size.
They sounded like thisOne of their recordings: https://youtu.be/pstM687ohOQ
It's Prohibition!We need to take the trumpet player into custody for pouring booze from his flask.
[That's a tobacco pouch. He's rolling a cigarette. - Dave]
I see the clarinetist only has one instrument with him, probably a common B-flat. Clarinets in A are often specified in orchestral works because they play better in sharp keys. The teensy saxophone is a soprano -- usually today they look like brass clarinets, but the curve here matches up with the other size saxes.
Further clarification on the clarinet -- it's got a really ancient key system on it. In fact it is a Klosé-Boehm system keying from 1839, around four generations behind the modern Oehler system that orchestra players use today, which was developed in 1900. The first black jazz players often bought old obsolete instruments shipped over from Europe so that may be where it came from. Even today some jazz players prefer playing on older key system instruments.
Where Shall We Build the StageFind some place where the floor is curved. But don't make it a symmetrical curve.
[I suspect the roof is crowned for drainage. - Dave]
Sax familyThe saxophone family is well represented here. From lowest to highest: baritone, tenor, C melody, alto (2), straight soprano, and either a curved soprano or a sopranino. I bet they kept their reed salesman busy!
All Muddled UpHere's how they sounded:
Some important players hereThere's several important early jazz musicians here: Joe Tarto is the bassist, Chauncey Morehouse is on drums and Arthur Schutt is on piano. Schutt was a true virtuoso. All prominent on record, sadly they are now known only to those interested in the jazz/dance music of the period.
The clarinet isn't particularly ancientIt's a Boehm system clarinet (minus the low E-flat key), which is still the standard today in most places. The Oehler system is supposed to be more popular with professional clarinetists in Germany and Austria. Both the Boehm and the Oehler systems superseded the Albert system, although Albert system clarinets are still popular for some kinds of music (I associate Albert clarinets with Central and Eastern Europe and with music from those areas, such as klezmer).
These ornaments... Is this still a thing? I've never seen that before. Fabulous!
Re: is this still a thing?Yeah, pretty much. Below is a chunk of a 1992 Selmer Baritone. What's NOT so much a thing anymore is the curved soprano that's sitting in front. Very unusual nowadays. Jan Garbarek still plays one far as I know. Gives a different tone from the straight version, which is way more popular. For example (gulp), Kenny G.
Sax "ornaments"......mentioned by Bolek are the engravings on a satin gold-plate Buescher True-Tone baritone sax.
A gold sax cost about double the standard finish back then (satin silver plate with gold plate inside the bell). First the bell had to be engraved, the engravings masked off and the sax body sandblasted to a satin finish. It was then silver plated, and 21k coin-gold plated over the silver. The inner areas of the engravings were smoothed bright with a burnishing tool, creating the eye catching contrasting look so well depicted in the photo.
Finally, bright gold keys with all necessary pads, springs, and corks were installed. A resident musician playtested every Buescher before it left the plant.
All this for a barisax with range only to top E flat - which would be obsolete in just a few years, when instruments with high E and F keys began to become available!
(The Gallery, G.G. Bain, Music, NYC)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY-34925u.thumbnail.jpg "Take Five: 1922")
- Mardi Gras 1952
- ... Gras 1952 captures characters and a club headlining noted jazz clarinetist Alphonse Picou (1878 -1961). Mr. Picou played the Paddock ... for Picou is on Steve Valenti's Paddock Club, a long time jazz venue. (The animated neon sign depicting a galloping horse is mostly ... Posted by jnc - 06/24/2008 - 9:51pm -
- The Operators: 1919
- ... stood the test of time!
Hello Central? Give me Dr. Jazz.
Family connection This is what my mom did in the 1940s for the old ... Posted by Dave - 07/23/2012 - 10:52am -
![Washington, D.C., circa 1919. "Chesapeake & Potomac Telephone Co. switchboards." Harris & Ewing Collection glass negative. View full size.
Made for the Long DistanceI was a telephone operator up until 1978. With the exception of the headpiece with the mouth cone, the hair and clothing styles, the room and switchboards looked almost exactly like this. The boards were made extremely well and stood the test of time!
Hello Central?Give me Dr. Jazz.
Family connectionThis is what my mom did in the 1940s for the old AT&T.
Time warp?The clock on the wall reads 7:25 and the small clocks at the operator's stations read 5:10.
[The wall clock says 5:09. - Dave]
One Ringy DingyIs this the party to whom I'm speaking?
Lucky GuysTwo men in a room full of young women. Heaven or maybe hell?
And I thought MY job was micromanaged!I suppose the switchboard watches (one every third girl) were there to time calls.
Keeping coolCan you imagine all these people stuff into this room, working elbow to elbow in their long sleeves and skirts relying on those two fans for comfort when hot humid air hits Washington in the summer. Whew!
Plugs and JacksI used to install dial-cord switchboards like these. The last one I did was sometime in the late 1970s for Westinghouse. The doors piled up along the wall were from the backs of the stations, and were usually removed only for running new cables or adding jack strips. On the back of each jack hole you see on those boards were six wires, each stripped and soldered in place. Needless to say, installing these things took plenty of time and patience.
In and OutSame basic management style existed when I started with Nynex/Bell Atlantic/Verizon in 1987. We also had something similar to the box on the column. It had lights on it that would indicate who was jacked in to the board and who was not -- green in, red out.
See Miss GregoryAd from the August 18, 1918, Washington Post. Click to enlarge.
Disemboweled HandGomez, on the right side of the room -- could that be Thing?
[The word you were thinking of (I dearly hope): "Disembodied." - Dave]
Changing timesI noticed in this picture how many people were working. A similar service in this day might involve one person with a computer. Also, everyone is so well dressed. In the pre-polyester days those blouses must have take a lot of ironing to look presentable. Finally, there are so few overweight women in this picture. I think a similar office scene in 2010 would be very different. We have, unfortunately, become fat, frumpy and unemployed.
Another Family ConnectionMy mom was an operator for Pacific Bell in the 60s and 70s. Her saddest story was about young men crying as they called their parents before being shipped out to Vietnam. Her funniest story was about how young men would call home on Father's Day, wish their dads a happy day, and then immediately ask for Mom.
Full EmploymentPerhaps we should go back to this way of doing things. Automation is wonderful but it certainly has had an affect on the jobs available for entry-level people. I kind of miss hearing "number please" but don't miss waiting, sometimes hours, to make a long distance call. So, yes, I'm torn between the "good ol' days" and modern conveniences.
Thanks DaveFor leaving the title. That "disembowled hand" actually made me howl. Still giggling.
"Three daily recreation periods"No date, but this Long Lines Operator recruiting brochure looks roughly contemporaneous with the photo and ad.
Then vs nowI'm on the phones in the faults department of a larger phone company. We have in our centre a few former plug and switch operators(their job was the same as the ladies above). The only things different from their pics are the fashions and the mouthpiece.
In Australia, full automation of the telephone network did not happen until the mid 1980's, people had to book STD (long distance) calls on busy days like Christmas Day. It's amazing to think that only 25 or so years later, if I need to transfer a call (something that happens often), I just push a couple of buttons on my handset and off they go.
Buns buns buns!I love how every girl has the same hairdo, but every single bun is different!
I did this too.I worked for AT&T in 1986, first as an overseas operator then on to ship-to-shore with the radio stations WOO, WOM and KMI. These single-pole plug-in cord boards were later replaced with double-pronged International Service Position System boards. The ratio of women to men also changed a little. In my unit, which looked much like this, it was about 2-1 with women still dominating the job. The other people in the unit were usually service assistants who helped the operators and often relieved them to go to the bathroom. In my unit we had dedicated circuits connected to inward operators of countries like Russia, Lebanon, India and Ghana. I totally loved the job! As automation took over, downsizing began, ultimately reducing the force by leaps and bounds.
My grandmother's best and last memoriesMy Nan worked as a supervisor at the Bell around this time in Montreal. It was her job to time the operators and see how well they were doing their jobs.
When she was in her late 80s she could remember this like it was yesterday, but she couldn't remember yesterday.
Fantastic picture. Gives me some insight to Grandmother's life.
(Technology, The Gallery, D.C., Harris + Ewing, The Office)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/20543a.thumbnail.jpg "The Operators: 1919")
- Woman's Bureau: 1922
- ... there sometime this week.
Hello Central Give me Dr. Jazz.
Ruth Buzzi the elderly Lily Tomlin? The large purse is absent!
... Posted by Dave - 09/13/2011 - 11:17pm -
![November 1922. Washington, D.C. "Woman's Bureau, Metropolitan Police Dep't. Telephone calls bring prompt attention." National Photo Co. View full size.
Cold OfficeI just noticed that she is on the exterior side of that double hung window. That really makes this office uninviting!
Behind BarCan't decide if that bar is to keep her in or others out. In either case, it appears one would have to crawl under it. At least she has the keys.
Hey! Fish!If this was NY's 12th Precinct, I would expect Wojo and Fish were out on a call. Obviously they modeled the set of "Barney Miller" on this.
ErgonomicsThat particular arrangement is my personal idea of hell.
So spatious and invitingNo expense was spared to accommodate the WB.
[It was an extra-spatial kind of spatiousness. - Dave]
Nothin' like a hairnetTo take away any semblance of sex appeal.
Call indicator boxI have an oak call box in my kitchen the same as the one to the right of the light fixture; it was once used to summon the servants to different rooms by pushing doorbell buttons. The DC police must have used this one as an intercom of some kind.
Washington "And Nearby Places"What a quaint expression, that!
Not a negative commentDingy, and a lot of it doesn't seem the fault of an old negative.
Cell, PhoneIf this is typical of an office in the DC Police Department, I'd hate to see what the cells in the DC Jail looked like.
One Ringy Dingy, Two Ringy DingyIs this the party to whom I am speaking?
911 What's your emergency?We'll have a car out there sometime this week.
Hello CentralGive me Dr. Jazz.
Ruth Buzzi the elderly Lily Tomlin?The large purse is absent!
Giant fingerprint faux finishMaybe Martha Stewart will have a special on how to achieve that in your own police station.
Also, funny how this photo makes even the pencil sharpener look old-fashioned, even though hand-cranked ones are still fairly common.
Everything within easy reach... except the pencil sharpener! That chair will swivel so she can easily use the books on the other table, and the typewriter is well out of the way of the writing surfaces. I've worked in worse.
Security Fire AlarmI love the little iron hammer on the short chain. Break the glass to get to the fire alarm button. If a prankster sounds the alarm, just follow the blood trail. If the fire is real, well, decisions, decisions.
Nearby PlacesGreetings from Bethesda, Maryland, one of those "nearby places." Which unfortunately can now take an hour or more to drive to during rush hour from downtown D.C.
Guess it's not as nearby as it used to be!
The dark side of the BureauMs. Mina Van Winkle, director of the D.C. Police Women's Bureau, provided this explanation to an audience in Boston in 1920: The Bureau was organized to enforce "the District's war-time legislation," but "proved so valuable as an emergency measure that it has been made permanent." In 1928 Ms. Van Winkle told a reporter that "Washington is the mecca for all psychopathic women of the nation."
The feature story explained that one of the Bureau's functions was protecting lawmakers "from psychopathic women who flock to the city while Congress is in session with wild and utterly unfounded tales of wrongs done them by prominent men. ... Due to the vigilance of the policewomen, the government officials and other well-known Washingtonians accused of serious misdemeanors often do not even know they have been involved," because the Bureau's policewomen intercept such women, sending some to "some insane asylum" and others home to their husbands, fathers, or brothers.
Depressing dimensionsWhen your office is taller than it is wide, that's not good.
Fish on bun, Jello and milkShe must not have been paid much. From the looks of that sassy hairnet, she had to moonlight as a cafeteria lady.
What, no spittoon?Not fair.
Immaculate PerceptionOf course, this young lady's hairnet was quite common in those days. The cleansers and hair treatments of the day were unsophisticated, which made hairstyling a challenge. Mass production made the fine mesh solution to runaway or frizzy hair available to all women, at a cost most could afford. The hairnets were sold at accessory stores in individual boxes and put out on display, along with the fine gloves and stockings. A great many women, from Bonnie Parker to Eleanor Roosevelt, wore hairnets when they were considered a neat, clean, and feminine beauty product.
(The Gallery, D.C., Natl Photo, The Office)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/23672u.thumbnail.jpg "Woman's Bureau: 1922")
- Isham Jones Orchestra: 1922
- ... forgotten (but still occasionally played by traditional jazz bands and rooftop orchestras) is "Down Where the Sun Goes Down." I like ... Posted by Dave - 08/01/2012 - 5:37pm -
- Library Ladies: 1953
- ... glass case display on a monthly basis. (As much as one can jazz up Gov Docs.)
My Library I spent many happy hours in this library ... Posted by Dave - 07/27/2012 - 4:50pm -
- Wabash Avenue L: 1900
- ... his work was written around 1900. I would have thought hot jazz a better choice for that movie, given the period.
The Gottcha Is ... Posted by Dave - 07/20/2012 - 3:44pm -
![September 1, 1900. "Wabash Avenue north from Adams Street, Chicago." 8x10 inch dry plate glass negative, Detroit Publishing Company. View full size.
Direct connectionThe walkway from the building to the station used to be common; many stops in the Loop on the L and in the subway had a direct connection from some adjacent business; it was a selling point for the business.
The ones on the L are all gone now. Most of the subway ones are closed as well, with the exception of the ones that are part of the pedway.
GottchaWonderful street scene. Can you find the "Gottcha"? Or what on first glance appears to be a "Gottcha."
Signage That is an interesting sign behind the Pilgrim Press Booksellers. The one that has pictures of monuments or crosses on it. It would be nice to have a closer look at that.
I did a little more research just guessing it is a monument companies sign and found the Charles M. Gall Company in Chicago at that time. They were also mentioned in the "Monument Mans Handbook" from 1919. The book had illustrations of types of monuments and it seems that some on the sign are military monuments. Of course, I could be totally off base and if anyone has any other ideas let me know.
A Story In Every SignBarely visible below and to the right of the Windsor Clifton sign is a sign for Alfred Peats. According to his March 1915 obituary in the NYT, Peats made money so fast he was "crazed by riches" and driven insane. He ended up at the Bloomingdale Asylum.
For that total Shorpy experienceI like to play my Scott Joplin CD while looking at these turn of the century street scenes in Hi-Def. It's almost like watching a Ken Burns documentary.
It seems odd that his music was used in a soundtrack for a movie set in the 1930s (The Sting) when most of his work was written around 1900. I would have thought hot jazz a better choice for that movie, given the period.
The GottchaIs that someone misspelled "gotcha"?
How Often ...Jake: How often does the train go by?
Elwood: So often that you won't even notice it.
Are these what are known as "cold water" flats due to the water pipe running vertically from the sidewalk? There seems to be one valve or "tap" for each flat accessible from the veranda. What happened in the winter when the water froze?
Got HER!The man walking by the bookshop at lower left appears to be goosing his female companion.
GotchaAre you referring to the woman who appears to be scratching her behind? At first glance it looks like the man walking slightly behind her is "taking liberties," but after closer examination I believe he is innocent.
[I think she's lifting her skirt a bit to keep it off the sidewalk. Hey lady, you're on the Internet! - Dave]
Her Own ParadeAnd believe me, I'd be in it too!
PlumbingThose look like standpipes for firefighters. You can see the terminus of one on the top of the building on the right side of the street. Rather than drag a hose all the way up from the street hydrant they could hook on to the standpipe and direct water to whatever floor needed it, or all the way to the roof.
Chicago in the mid 1970sAs a HS student and camera buff, I used to go to the photo stores on Wabash Avenue, under the elevated tracks. Altman's Camera was one of the best places to buy equipment, and I would ride the train from Milwaukee with a pile of cash, arrive at the train station and then walk, nervously, east through pimps, hookers and street thugs to Wabash. Then I would walk back to the train station with my purchases, just as nervously. Boy, has Chicago cleaned up its act since those days.
Re: SignageMy guess is that it from the florist shop and shows designs for wreaths, possibly funerary.
CivilizedI notice not a hint of graffiti on the support beams for the elevated railway.
Fire ProtectionI'd guess those tall pipes are dry standpipes for firefighting. They'd be empty of water until hooked up to a pumper during a fire.
(And I think the hand on the lady's bottom is her own. The man appears to be carrying a parcel.)
Direct Connection, Part 2The bridge connecting the L Station (Madison & Wabash) to the buildings on the left side of the street was designed by Louis Sullivan for the Schlesinger & Mayer department store in 1896, when the Wabash Avenue leg of the Loop L was brand new. This was Sullivan's first work for the department store; he later built an entirely new building for them around the corner at State & Madison Streets (1899-1904). This building is better known by the name Carson Pirie Scott & Co., which occupied the structure from 1904 to 2007. While Sullivan's bridge is long gone, the building that it "plugged into" has recently had its facade restored, and some "lost" Sullivan ornament was recovered in the process.
Palmer HouseThe building on the left reads "Potter Palmer" near the top, which makes me think this might be the back of the second incarnation (1875-1923) of the Palmer House hotel. The front faced State Street, a block to the west.
Wabash Avenue L: 2010Some of the buildings on the right in the 1900 photo, just past the train, still exist. The very tall building in the center is the Trump Hotel and Tower across the river.
And yes, Pete is correct, that's the Palmer house on the immediate left. Between 1923 and 1925, the 2nd Palmer House was torn down while the 3rd (and current) hotel was built. So the hotel never closed during construction!
(The Gallery, Chicago, DPC, Railroads, Stores & Markets)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/4a08136a.thumbnail.jpg "Wabash Avenue L: 1900")
- The Twiddler: 1922
- ... early radio broadcasts included music transmissions of jazz and other music. Also electric cylinder recorders were not common until ... Posted by Dave - 07/23/2012 - 10:51am -
![Washington, D.C. December 19, 1922. "Rep. Vincent Morrison Brennan, Republican of Michigan, listening in on the proceedings of the House, with a receiving set." National Photo Co. Collection glass negative. View full size.
Cylinder dictation machinesConcerning Bob's question- I'm pretty sure those are cylinder dictation machines, similar to early Edison phonographs. The "cans" beneath are containers for the cylinders.
More about them here.
Mega dittosRush Limbaugh's first fan.
Would you believeThis is the portable model!
While twiddlingThe Congressman sits there waiting for Brian Lamb to be born.
Outstanding processingI downloaded the 1.7 mb tiff file from the LOC. It is a poor quality image. I spent a little time working on it. The processing you did to create the .jpg above is outstanding. How about a brief description of the steps you took to create the image?
[Thanks Doug. You are working from a different version of this image -- a print. Instead use the negative that the print was made from. Download the 25mb tiff. Then twiddle with the Shadows & Highlights filter in Photoshop CS4. - Dave]
Ahead of his timeThe rightmost device atop the senator's desk is one of the first AC adapters. All radios in 1922 were battery powered, but the senator has his plugged into the wall via this adapter. They were prone to fire and explosion — pretty sure that vertical cage houses a massive wirewound resistor that would have had to have gotten mighty hot. Anyway, the senator's "receiver" setup sure was top-of-the-line in 1922. He must have been an avid wireless fan.
Not an AC adapterThe "vertical cage" is in fact a tuned directional aerial. The reason that some AC power supplies went off with a bang was the unreliability of early electrolytic capacitors (needed in the smoothing circuit).
Ahead of his timeCongressman Brennan, who served only one term (he didn't run for reelection in 1922), introduced a bill to allow radio coverage of Congressional proceedings. It failed.
Not yet the telephonoscopeObviously this gentleman was a respectable politician listening to respectable material. But French scientist and sci-fi writer Camille Flammarion had a vision in 1894 of what such technology might lead to in his novel "La Fin du Monde" -- today's couch potato watching the dancing girls on his plasma screen. Sometimes it takes a long time to bring the technology to fruition.
Not Only PortableBut wireless too!
Worth the effort?From the looks of that contraption I think it would have been easier just to have gone to the House in person.
Cable-Satellite Public Affairs NetworkWhat we're seeing here is a beta C-Span.
Don't be blinded by all the technologyHe has a really nice rolltop desk, too.
Tuned InI suspect that this indeed was the portable version. Most radios of the period used lengthy aerials on the roof and a big copper earth spike in the garden.
I'm intrigued by the device to the right under the frame aerial, partially covered up. This seems to have a drive belt and a pulley. Is this some kind of motor generator set, to generate DC electricity from AC mains (or even DC mains)? It seems to have a rack for cans beneath it. The one to the right has a full set of cans. Are these electrolytic capacitors? Is this the power supply?
re "Vertical cage"I think Fred and Zach are talking about two different things. The large wagon-wheel thing is indeed a directional loop antenna. But Zach was referring to the smaller cylinder atop the desk that enclosed a resistor used to drop the line voltage to a low voltage for the tube filaments. Later transformers were used to do this more efficiently.
Hark! A Fark!Farked again.
Radio 4 the PeepulThe prescience of this writer (R.T.S.) to the ramifications of broadcasting congressional debate amazes me. Apparently the allure that an open microphone holds over our elected officials was set in place nearly a century ago.
Washington Post, Mar 13, 1922
Men And Affairs
By R. T. S.
The proposition of Representative Vincent Brennan, of Ohio, to equip the United States Capitol with a radio "broadcaster" capable of carrying the House and Senate debates to all parts of the county so that the "peepul" can know what is going on every day in Congress is causing something akin to alarm in wireless circles. Already the question is asked as to what the other waves have ever done to Congress to be inflicted with such a daily output of oratory? And what chance would the air have to carry anything else once it was freighted with the congressional debates?
The problems which arise in connection with the project are simply stupendous. How could the Senate and House both be in wireless operation at the same time without serious "interference?" Certainly it would be necessary to pitch the debates on different planes - different wave lengths. And which would claim the higher plane? Furthermore, if all the debates were broadcasted and some several hundred thousand of persons were listening spellbound at the old family fireside, how could you ever get either representative of senator to stop talking? Congress would be session for 24 hours a day.
Certainly the wireless telephone has congressional possibilities, but if there has been too much talk, with only the Congressional Record as a medium of complete expression, what in the world would happen with a lot of radio sets tuned to a concert pitch and rearin' to go?
Two rightmost devicesAre they dictating phonographs?
More than just twiddlingThis is an interesting photo from a technical perspective.
The subject is far more that just a twiddler. He has an advanced radio receiving setup, but even more interesting are the two cylinder machines.
At the time early radio broadcasts included music transmissions of jazz and other music. Also electric cylinder recorders were not common until around 1925, but these devices are definitely electrically driven cylinder devices and I speculate that one or both are recorders. In which case this fellow could be involved in recording music received from a broadcast and then duplicating cylinders for sale or distribution.
More about the radio. The twiddler is tuning the valve radio located on the desktop. That involved tuning in the station and also tuning the input signal to maximise signal strength. The four connection top right on the receiver are for the A and B power supply voltages, these are coming from batteries in the box on the floor to the right of the desk. The bottom right connections on the receiver connect to the loop antenna on the stand. The receiver would power headphone by default. In the case however the audio output is connected to the valve audio amplifier on the top shelf, the output of which is connected to the electrically driven horn loudspeaker to the left. The unit to the right of the amplifier is housing what is almost certainly a power triode delivering heaps of power, perhaps around 2 watts. I a have already suggested, the output could also be fed to a cylinder recorder (very advanced).
Interesting; quite a leader, with regards to copyright issues and dilemmas only now being dealt with by the major music distribution companies.
(Technology, The Gallery, D.C., Farked, Natl Photo)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/23690u.thumbnail.jpg "The Twiddler: 1922")
- Washington Flour: 1926
- ... On the north side of K Street were a number of clubs, jazz, blues & live performance, including the infamous Bayou. In the '60s ... Posted by Dave - 08/05/2012 - 5:31pm -
![Washington, D.C., circa 1926. "Wilkins-Rogers Milling Co., exterior, 3261 Water Street." The Washington Flour mill on K Street, formerly Water Street, in Georgetown. The Washington Flour brand had a retail presence at least into the late 1960s. National Photo Company Collection glass negative. View full size.
The buildingsIt's so great that the two buildings in the picture have survived, and it seems with very few exterior changes. As you travel in the Google videos it's plain to see the brick work and architecture is basically the same as when the picture was taken. I love those Google shots.
[Actually both buildings are only about three-quarters their original size; their river-facing sides were lopped off by the Whitehurst Freeway. They started out rectangular but ended up as trapezoids. - Dave]
View Larger Map
Wilkins-RogersI'm not sure when W-R stopped milling in D.C., but the company still has mills in Ellicott City, on a site that has had a mill since the Ellicott brothers went into business there in 1772. The only product that still bears the Washington brand name, though, is its self-rising flour. Washington also makes Indian Head corn meal, which is the best.
http://www.wrmills.com/index.html
Cadillac PickupSomebody give us the dope on that odd truck in the lower right is it a Caddy or what?
[It's a pickup truck that belongs to the Washington Cadillac Co. - Dave]
Check out the boxcars...The front two cars are from the Baltimore & Ohio and Pennsylvania railroads.
I always went for the RR's in Monopoly, it's fun to see the real deal!
Bulb changingDoes anyone else wonder how they changed the bulbs in those sign lamps perched six stories up? In those days bulbs had to be changed often and they didn't have bucket trucks back then.
A Georgetown fixture for yearsIf I'm not mistaken, this mill building was a fixture of the Georgetown waterfront area until a few years ago. Our grade school class visited there once. Those sun-drenched bricks and railroad tracks were later shadowed by an elevated expressway, and that blank facade could be seen close to the roadway. The bricks can still be seen peeking out from underneath the asphalt in places.
[These buildings still stand next to the Whitehurst Freeway, where the expressway (built in 1949) crosses Potomac Street. They're part of an office complex at 1000 Potomac that sold for $50 million in 2007. - Dave]
View Larger Map
View Larger Map
Objectionable OdorsI seem to recall that in the 70's there was a rendering plant on Water Street that made quite a stink, and that from the freeway, you could see a sign painted on that flour mill that said "The objectionable odors that you may notice in this area do not originate from this plant."
A small correctionThe street that runs by the old flour mill and later beneath the Whitehurst freeway is K Street N.W. I used to police this area for some ten years while with the M.P.D.C. 1959-1969.
[The street than ran by the flour mill was Water Street, which became K Street after the Georgetown street renaming of 1895. People evidently continued to call that stretch Water Street for years afterward. - Dave]
Re: Bulb changingIt seems to me that the only reasonable way is for the reflectors to move to the roof somehow. One can envision the 5 poles on the left being detached at their bases and pulled in while suspended by their guys. The three poles on the right would maybe pivot upwards at their bases, pulled by their guys, to workers on the ledge. Sounds awfully complicated. There must be a more clever way.
A Grind in GeorgetownWashington Post, Feb 29, 1940
Lone Flour Plant Grinds on Canal
Washington's flour industry is built partly in a modern city's demand for bread, partly in a century and half of tradition.
The city's only flour plant is the Wilkins Rogers Milling Co., at Potomac and K streets northwest. It is housed in two buildings, one more than 100 years old with brick walls 2 feet thick, used formerly as cotton plant, ice plant, flour mill, and now office and warehouse. The other is a modern six-story concrete, brick and steel structure, building in 1922 and housing the present mill.
The plant is on a hill between the old Chesapeake & Ohio Canal and the Potomac River. The canal, which used to bring loaded grain barges from the upland farms to feed the Georgetown mills, now supplies all the power used in the mill.
The last century, Georgetown boasted a dozen mills at one time, eight flour mills and four grist mills. Some of the flour went down the Potomac and away to European markets.
Now the grain comes in by truck and railroad to the K street side of the mill. In the American milling industry, the Wilkins Rogers firm counts itself at the "end of the line," since the flour centers have shifted to the Middle West.
Operators of the mill are Howard L. Wilkins and Samuel H. Rogers. Without exaggeration they could be cast in the roles of traditional "jolly millers." Or they could be typed as businessmen who picked up a dead business and built it to a $2,000,000 annual volume.
Wilkins is 73 and president of the firm. He was born in New Jersey, but grew up on a farm near Mount Vernon. His family farm was near the old Dogue Run Mill, built by George Washington, a coincidence that takes added note because Wilkins helped remodel the mill. He was educated in Washington schools.
Rogers, 61-year-old vice president, is the son of a Loudoun County miller, who taught him the flour business. He is the father of four boys, and would like to see at the least the oldest one go into the same business. Outside the mill his main hobby is raising thoroughbred horses in his Loudoun County farm.
The two joined in 1915 to take over the old Arlington Mill, built in 1847, according to a stone plaque in the wall of the new mill. It had been closed for three years. Their friends advised them against the venture. They went ahead, caught a slice of war-trade by selling flour to Italy, and later turned the mill over to producing flour for America's World War needs.
The old mill and its machinery were destroyed in a fire, July 4, 1922. The modern mill was built at the same site.
At first glance the inside of the mill gives the impression that it was never finished. The interior is like a building still under construction, a tangle of girders, of gigantic funnels, pipes running at all angles, with a network of power belts winding endlessly from floor to floor. Later you find that girders, funnels, pipes, belts are all parts of one huge machine, which transforms whole grain to flour, and corn to meal, with never a hand touching it.
Corn and wheat are mostly purchased directly from farms within a 75-mile radius.
Behind the Grain DoorIn order to keep the grain from leaking out of the the car during it's long transit from the wheat belt to the flour mill, the boxcars in the photo would have their
doorway openings fitted with wooden grain doors, effectively sealing the interior of the car. The car's sliding door would cover the grain door. As show on one of the cars, upon arrival at their destination, the upper boards would be removed and depending upon the facility's equipment, the grain would be shoveled out of the car or unloaded with a mechanical conveyor. By the mid-20th century, wooden grain doors were replaced by ones made of thick paper with light wooden frames. Some of these were reinforced with metal banding. Today, all grain product is shipped in covered hopper cars. Grain is loaded from the top and unloaded from the bottom of modern cars. It is interesting to note that the B&O double door car was designed to carry automobiles.
Many cars tended to be seasonal in their use and thus tended to have multiple duties - all part of maintaining a steady revenue stream for the railroad who built and operated these cars.
Under the FreewayBy the 1960's, this was about as "industrial" as Washington got. Under the Whitehurst Freeway you had Washington Flour, Maloney Concrete and the rendering plant, all adjacent to the Pepco power plant. The DMV also had its impound lot down there on the banks of the then horribly foul-smelling Potomac. On the north side of K Street were a number of clubs, jazz, blues & live performance, including the infamous Bayou. In the '60s and '70s, while preppy Georgetown students and affluent trend-setters populated the clubs and restaurants above M Street (the 3rd Edition, Pall Mall, Charing Cross, etc.), it was a very different scene below M and down under the freeway! By the late '80s it was essentially gone, gentrified away.
My GrandfatherMy grandfather Harrison Goolsby was caretaker of Mr. Wilkins's 365-acre farm, Grassy Meade, off Mount Vernon Boulevard in the 1940s. You could also get to it from Fort Hunt Road. I surely wish I could find a picture of the old place. Mr. Wilkins's daughter sold out to the contractor, Gosnell, who developed it into Waynewood Estates.
I would appreciate any help on this matter. Everybody's pretty much died after all these years. My mom and dad lived in the lower house.
Thanks ever so much, Edgar
Note the old wooden boxcarwith the "outside" metal frame. I recall seeing boxcars of this construction well into the 1960s.
Pennsy box carThat old box car is known as a X-26 single sheathed car. It was built in March 1925. The last car of that series was retired about 1958. Been around the block a few times.
Odor in areaI remember the odor from the area. I was told it was the tannery next door to the mill. Makes sense as a tannery does smell. My best friend's father worked at the mill until his retirement.
I, too, remember that sign.Pirateer has it almost exactly right. The sign was set at such a height as to be easily readable -- indeed, impossible to ignore -- from the Whitehurst Freeway.
It read:
THE OBJECTIONABLE ODORS YOU MAY NOTICE IN THIS AREA DO NOT ORIGINATE IN THIS PLANT
I know, because my sister and I used to read it aloud in unison at the top of our lungs whenever we passed by. I'm sure our parents looked forward to those drives.
My mom, who is quite an accomplished oil painter, did a rendering (as it were) of the old plant that is at once realistic and beautiful. I'll have to ask if she still has it.
Flour PowerThe firm's ads used the phrase "water-ground" to describe its flour. When the original water-powered belt transmission system was replaced with a water-powered electrical generator and motors, permission was granted by authorities (FTC?) to continue using the the phrase.
Rendering plant?Does anyone remember the name of the rendering plant that produced the horrible smell? My mother grew up in Georgetown and I remember her mentioning the business by name and telling me that it had been there since the late 19th century. The name sounded German, as I recall.
(The Gallery, D.C., Natl Photo, Railroads)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/33024u.thumbnail.jpg "Washington Flour: 1926")
- Hello Lamppost: 1926
- ... too, as my wife and I just saw Simon and Garfunkel at Jazz Fest in New Orleans this past weekend.
Hello Lamppost: ... ... Posted by Dave - 07/24/2012 - 9:51pm -
![Washington, D.C., circa 1926. "Auto accident." With no shortage of witnesses. National Photo Company Collection glass negative. View full size.
Maybethe lamppost ran out and jumped on him?
Celebrity WatchIsn't that George Costanza standing next to the cop on the extreme left of the picture?
Slow Down, You Move Too FastThe missing running board and dented passenger door seem to indicate that a side impact threw this Durant into the lamppost. Some other car apparently came kicking down the cobble stones.
How appropriate a headline, too, as my wife and I just saw Simon and Garfunkel at Jazz Fest in New Orleans this past weekend.
Hello Lamppost:... feelin' not so groovy!
Whatcha knowin'?He may have even kicked down a few cobblestones.
The good old daysThere was less government encroachment on personal liberty in the "good old days." That driver will be able to feel the effects of the accident for some time to come: he may even have scars or bruises to show family and friends. Today, however, the government requires us to wear seat belts: what a bummer.
[And our insurance premiums help pay for the liberty of you who choose not to. - Dave]
RubberneckingA good accident never fails to draw the attention of surrounding people. It is so interesting that boys would rather watch than play baseball!
That tire on the groundis pretty thin!
High mileageThat certainly was a well worn tire that was knocked off the car. Maybe a blowout was the cause of the accident in the first place.
Front EndHey, is that an indepentdent double wishbone suspension with anti-lock brakes and electronic stability control?
The air bag didn't deployDurant is in big trouble now!
Accidentes de tráficoNow climbing the charts at meneame.net.
(The Gallery, Cars, Trucks, Buses, D.C., Natl Photo)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/16125u.thumbnail.jpg "Hello Lamppost: 1926")
- The Duchess of Dallas: 1920
- ... changed where appropriate. I have many of their mid-20's jazz records.
The Duchess of Dallas Hits the blogosphere in the Dallas ... Posted by Dave - 06/18/2018 - 1:10pm -
![Washington, D.C., circa 1920. "Miss Inez Thomas of Dallas, Texas." Who represented her city as the Duchess of Dallas at the 1916 San Antonio Fiesta. Harris & Ewing Collection glass negative. View full size.
Texas bellesMy husband used to travel a lot for business, and he always said the most beautiful women were in Dallas.
Aye for "Pretty Girls"The votes are in, Dave. I think Miss Thomas deserves elevation to the revered "Pretty Girls" category.
[Consider her elevated. - Dave]
That Look!Can't decide if it's "come hither" or "touch me and you'll be crippled for life."
Everything about her screams "1920s" and she's gorgeous.
The Eyes Have ItI wonder if they're blue or maybe hazel. Either way I say
hubba hubba.
Reservation for oneI'll bet the "Duchess" dined out on that for years. Dallas women haven't changed much in the last century.
From what I heard...that's not all she did at the 1916 San Antonio Fiesta!
Shades of 1977Miss Thomas reminds me of Donna Pescow when she played the girl who couldn't win the heart of John Travolta in "Saturday Night Fever".
WOW! Just one word, WOW! A very pretty woman. Pretty eyes, nice full lips, what's not to like? An air of mystery about her, for sure. **sigh**
Knows her nosePortrait of one fine-looking Texan, made all the more so by her (or the fotog's) realization that a slight tilt up minimizes the effect of a generously-sized nose. Note the focal point is right at her irises; everything else is soft. Oh, to be the Duke to such a Duchess. "Another ladle of Tex-Mex chili to go with your Pearls lager, m'lady?"
Flawless BeautyNo unnatural "pillow-lips" or plastic enhancements, dressed in elegant attire and probably a Neiman-Marcus customer (if it was there in 1916). For those who think that all "flyover country" is full of hicks and rubes, I can assure you that lots of the most beautiful people on the planet exist in between the two coasts. They just aren't heavily promoted.
Top Ten!I would put her in the running for Shorpy's top ten females.
Guardian angleThat pose can be used to minimize an alarming nose.
Elegance beyond comparison!!!Neiman-Marcus was founded in 1907 and I'm certain this gorgeous and elegant lady was a valued and regular patron! I'm sure she danced fox trots and waltzes, maybe even the Charleston, to the music of Jimmie Joy's Baker Hotel Orchestra as well as Jack and Fred Gardners' Orchestras, all early 1920's graduates of the University of Texas. While she was in San Antonio, she would have danced at the St. Anthony Hotel (still in business today) to the same bands because they played in both venues with the names of the hotels changed where appropriate. I have many of their mid-20's jazz records.
The Duchess of DallasHits the blogosphere in the Dallas Observer:
According to the Texas History experts over at the Dallas Public Library, Miss Thomas was a student at St. Mary's in 1908 and attended Fairmont Seminary in Washington, D.C. This photo appears to have been taken in our nation's capital, probably when Miss Thomas returned for alumnae events. She went on to marry one J. William Rubush in 1926, though her husband seems to have shot himself in 1948. A quick glance over at The Dallas Morning News historical archive suggests that she remarried a man named Schubert and died herself in 1978, living at an address on Lomo Alto Drive not far from our very own Unfair Park headquarters.
Not a completely charmed lifeInez Thomas Rubush Schubert was born Sept. 29, 1893, and died July 23, 1974. Her father made a large financial contribution to the San Antonio Fiesta in 1916, which is what got her the "Duchess" title. A graduate of Fairmont Seminary In Washington, D.C., she returned to Dallas and married her first husband, Joseph Rubush, in 1926. He committed suicide in 1948; she later married a Mr. Schubert.
Mystique and classSimply gawjus.
Dallas Doozies!I lived in Dallas (Addison suburb) for a year in the mid 80's. It seemed that everytime I stopped at a light on my daily commute and took a second or two to glance around, I always saw one or two gorgeous women drivers. I have visited the area many times since, and I have to say Big D would get my vote for the most beautiful women in the nation.
Photo induced nose enlargingI think the camera has enlarged her nose a bit, as happens very often on closeups, even with modern cameras. I think she had a gorgeous nose, and would love to see a profile of her! Profiles were very popular in those days, and the greatest beauties in the movies usually had fairly prominent, "shapely" noses.
Nose enlargingRe noelani's comment below, the facial distortions you often see in amateur close-ups are the result of a wide-angle lens. Be sure to step back and zoom in when taking a shot of your sweetie! This is why professional portrait photographers use a medium or long focal length lens. Or used to, since weirdifying faces is sort of a style in and of itself these days.
She's a wholesome beauty.What a beauty!
(The Gallery, D.C., Harris + Ewing, Portraits, Pretty Girls)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/18833a.thumbnail.jpg "The Duchess of Dallas: 1920")
- Xmas Bags: 1924
- ... This is the side of the Roaring Twenties, with its jazz, high living and extravagant escapades that we don't often see. If this ... Posted by Dave - 12/03/2011 - 10:59am -
![December 24, 1924. "Mrs. Coolidge giving out first Xmas bag for Salvation Army." National Photo Company Collection glass negative. View full size.
OOPSThe young lady to the left of the bag on the table looks like she just remembered something she forgot to put into the bag. And the SA member just to her right looks as in the bag is about to explode. Not everyone was comfortable with getting their picture taken.
A real ScreamThe young lady left of center looks like she's getting ready to try out for the Edvard Munch holiday diorama.
Holiday ConfusionI don't wish to get into the "X-mas" vs "Christmas" line of debate, but one question puzzles me.
Why does the tag line say "Halloween"?
Just call me curious.
[Oops! - Dave]
Squinty!I'm guessing that the lady on the right with the umbrella thinks that the camera will steal her spirit away if she opens her eyes.
Either that or she's stifling a sneeze.
[It think it probably has to do with the cloud of flash powder illuminating the proceeedings. - Dave]
Mr. Magoo's momIs that her on the right?
Ah cha-chaIt appears Mrs. Coolidge was escorted to the event by a cross-dressing Jimmy Durante.
Those two on the left with the glassesThe epitome of chastity, but somehow I see them as a couple that go nuts behind closed doors.
Strike a posePossibilities for the look on the face of the 3rd person from the right:
1. wishing this bad dream would all go away
2. in pain from foot being stabbed by umbrella
3. about to sneeze
4. constipated
Other than that I find no earthly reason for the look on someone's face like this in a pose with the first lady. Also, the two to the right of Mrs. Coolidge qualify for 2nd and 3rd prizes.
Talk about "frumpy"Looks like the life force of the room was just sucked out.
The Not-So-Roaring '20sThis is the side of the Roaring Twenties, with its jazz, high living and extravagant escapades that we don't often see. If this is the lot of some people at the height of a booming economy, what is life going to be like for these same individuals if they are still alive in ten years at the depth of the Great Depression?
A wonderful mix of characters in this pictureThere is a lot of see in this photo. The two in their Salvation Army outfits to the left could be from any classic photo or painting I've seen. But on their right, it almost looks like the lady is taking off a mask of -- herself, with a different hair color. I realized after looking closer, it is a shorter lady in front of her wearing the same hat and coat that makes it so odd.
Everyone else seems to be waiting for the flash open-eyed, but the lady below the hanging lamp on the right -- what a face she is making! I wonder how long she held that look.
No re-shoots hereWith so few truly odd/interesting shots around these days (probably due to the fact that 21st century photograpy allows editing, deleting and/or making one's pictures just so-even in the camera) these shots are truly fascinating for what they reveal. You have the rather supercilious looking Mrs. Coolidge, the sad looking first recepient in all black, the rather horrible looking offerings (the turkey/chicken legs hanging out don't add to the holiday appeal) and then there are faces being grabbed or squinched up or looking rather dismayed. Oh, what I would give to step into this shot and ask these folks what was on their minds just at the moment this picture was taken.
The givers, the humbled and the shabbyIt is not difficult to see who are the "haves" and who are the "have-nots" in this picture. Everyone left of the Jimmy Durante lady (in the used velvet coat with one button) works with the S.A. and Mrs. Coolidge. The recipients of the food are embarrassed and sheepish about receiving charity. The young boy with the dirty hands received a gift which looks like a kite or balsawood plane while his sister, with a hole in her stocking and worn-out clothes, seems empty-handed but hopeful. The closed-eyes lady seems humiliated but needs the groceries. As for the food bags, unwrapped raw poultry flung into a paper bag on top of bread and other items would not meet health standards today. Unfortunately, the world will always have the affluent and the poor and life will never be fair.
CHRISTmasI boycott all stores that substitute X for Christ and those bags CLEARLY say "Christmas" on them. I hope that I don't have to stop viewing Shorpy also.
[You're laboring under a common misconception. Below, an excerpt from the Wikipedia entry for "Xmas." - Dave]
The X comes from the Greek letter Chi, which is the first letter of Χριστός (Christ).
There is a common misconception that the word Xmas is a secular attempt to remove the religious tradition from Christmas by taking the "Christ" out of "Christmas."
Yes that is true long ago BUT we all know that X is meant to eliminate Christ in today's world. Centuries ago the X was used to mean Christ but NOT in today's world. God bless all the Shorpy fans this Christmas season!!!
[Actually no, "we" do not "all know that," for the simple reason that it's not true. In this particular instance, the caption is written in longhand on a tiny paper label affixed to the negative, and "Xmas" is a convenient abbreviation, employed for the usual reasons one uses an abbreviation: It fits where the longer word does not, or it's easier to write. If people want to secularize Christmas, they call it "the holidays." They don't use "Xmas," which begins with a literal representation of the cross and goes back to the very beginnings of Christianity. The idea that the word is meant to "eliminate Christ" is an erroneous notion rooted in ignorance. -Dave]
Xmas Bags?Xmas has nothing to do with it.
Now we know....Why President Coolidge was a man of few words.
Yuletide Charity
Washington Post, December 25, 1924.
Mrs. Coolidge Takes Part in City's Yuletide Charity
With Mrs. Calvin Coolidge taking a prominent part, Washington yesterday turned wholeheartedly to the spreading of Christmas cheer among its unfortunates. …
Yesterday morning Mrs. Coolidge acted the part of Santa Claus for a few moments at the entertainment given to approximately 1,200 children at Keith's theater under the auspices of the Central Union Mission. In the afternoon she assisted in the distribution at the Salvation Army auditorium at 606 E street northwest. More than 650 bags of food, each with dinner enough for five persons, were given away. …
In my opinionThere is way too much gaiety and fun going on in this room. Settle down, people!
Beam me up ScottyI believe that the person in the funny hat with the umbrella is really Captain Kirk impatiently waiting for Scotty to beam him up off this dreadful little planet and to get back on the bridge and pour himself a stiff drink!
Helping OthersI believe the three youngish looking ladies/girls with the tan coats and hats wearing kerchiefs are Girl Scouts earning a merit badge. You can see the GS insignia on the collar of the girl to the right of Jemima Durante.
Alternate TakeShowing a slightly different degree of mortification. Click to embiggen.
Re CHRISTmasIn addition to Dave's on-the-money clarification, some historians believe many crucifixions were not done with the traditional tee-shaped cross but with ones shaped like an X. Much easier to build and to erect. While it is believed that Christ died on a tee-shaped cross, the X version also is associated with that era of Christianity.
(The Gallery, Christmas, D.C., Natl Photo)](https://www.shorpy.com/files/images/SHORPY_26614u-xmas.thumbnail.jpg "Xmas Bags: 1924")
- Dottie Reid: 1947
- New York circa 1947. "Jazz singer Dottie Reid walking on 52nd Street." The stretch of pavement last ... PHOENIX, December 3, 2018 -- Big band singer and jazz artist Dorothy "Dottie" Reid died today at the age of 97. Dottie sang with ... Posted by Dave - 01/22/2019 - 11:59pm -
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